Last post on Oct 22, 2012 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#1823 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [smarty666]
Jun 24, 2010 (6:51 pm)
Funny I think if you did do some homework you could actually get a good deal on a 2008 or less better looking Acura because most of the leases are up and you don't have to deal with the premium for a bloated 2009 plus car. Better looking - lighter and still the same powertrain. Something Potential TL users should consider until Honda desides to redbull this rig. Smarty you should double check your Buick dealer tommorrow - smartyaz
I would say if pure dollars - performance - where something in this 3 car race it would go as follows- 2008 or older tl type s, then genesis, then es, then new tl.
My reason is simple - used tl best looking of the 3 and if your into performance you can get a 6 speed for under 30k- next genenisis it's got more bhp then both RWD and is the size of a s- class for 40k. Es proven looker resale and a safe play. New TL same as the ES its fwd proven just no real curb appeal when it comes to looks.
#1824 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [jtla]
Jun 24, 2010 (8:23 pm)
I agree that the ES has been on 5 year cycle, but this time it might be on 6 year cycle. They will change the engine that is used currently on ES/RX to differentiate from toyota models, just a guess since Honda/Nissan do the same with most of their vehicles.
FYI, IS was released in 2005 as 2006 model and needs to be redesigned in 2010 as 2011 model but that is not happening just a refresh again with 15% increase in fuel efficiency.
As fas as RX, the next year model (2006-2010) was always introduced in Feb but with 2011 RX, it will be introduced in Fall.
I agree that everyone's list is unique but if they are cross shopping FWD and RWD vehicles than they might be mis-informed.
#1825 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [sanish]
Jun 25, 2010 (5:26 am)
sanish...I have to admit, I haven't kept up on what Lexus has been doing. While I didn't shop the IS 350 against the TL (did that against a previous 3 series I had for awhile), I did shop the GS350 AWD briefly. Again, not a bad car. While Lexus does have the luxury quotient down, even the GS as their sports entry wasn't my choice vs the TL SH AWD.
I just think Lexus is going after a different buyer that those who are shopping Acura, Audi and BMW.
Even the Infiniti G is getting long in the tooth, and they appear to be moving the G down market with smaller motors.
While I doubt that Lexus will ever move into sporty enough territory for my taste, I'll keep an eye out for the changes you mentioned.
#1826 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [sweendogy]
Jun 25, 2010 (6:41 am)
I think you were replying to sanish man, not me. I didn't ask anything about the ES-TL-Genesis thing! no problem though!
#1827 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [graphicguy]
Jun 25, 2010 (6:45 am)
Your right about the GS. It has sold very poorly for Lexus and has not done well at all compared to all their other sedans.The current GS is a thorn in Lexus's side. I think they are doing a complete redesign next year so it will be interesting to see what Lexus does to improve upon it b/c it needs improvements in several areas!
#1828 of 2001 Re: TL - ES - Genesis [graphicguy]
Jun 25, 2010 (7:05 am)
In regards to the G, right now, Infiniti is going to move it down market to compete with the TSX, IS250, 328i, A4 and Regal. Apparently, the new G25 is going to be virtually identical to the current G37, except its going to have the smaller V6.
I was a little bit disappointed when I heard this because I was hoping their would be more than just the engine difference to differentiate it more from the already established G37 but apparently it is not. I suspect and hope, that if the G25 sells very well for Infiniti, in a few years, they will make it a completely separate model from the G37 (i.e. drivetrain, style, features, etc). Only time will tell of course.
Jun 25, 2010 (9:13 am)
If you take the Camry-clone ES & platform mate RX out of the mix, Lexus really doesn't sell all that many vehicles. The GS is a nice car, but get in one and then drive a 5 series. The GS steering is overboosted & has no feel to it. The suspension is too soft (for me), & the brake pedal is mushy at best.
Interior materials? Gorgeous. Fit & Finish? As advertised. Quiet? Even just sitting in the car I'm astonished at how silent the car is.
#1830 of 2001 Hyundai already a better lux car co?
Jun 25, 2010 (7:46 pm)
SUVs aside- let's take a look at Korea vs japan. Hyundai about to release a supersized sedan v8 powered, they already have a v6 and v8 powered genesis that starts in the mid 30,s, lets not forget about the coupe, they have a sonata that will soon sport a hybrid, a turbo 4 that puts out more hp and torque then the Base Tl for 8 grand less. Fwd 280 hp sound familiar? They are about to release another V8 with 425 hp. to me all they really néed to do is adapt a Awd system to the sedan- maybe call it Superdooper AWD or SD-AWD. Rutrooh
#1831 of 2001 Re: Lexus [nyccarguy]
Jun 26, 2010 (5:49 am)
nyc....those were my setiments about the GS. Granted, I really didn't give it much of a chance. Still, if I'm dropping $40K+ on a car, I better like it, a whole lot more than just a little.
I do think that Lexus does one thing well. That is, while you can find some commonality between them and their Toyota bretheren (some switches, engine sharing, etc), no one can deny that they have the whole "nice build and materials" thing down pat. If that's all you're looking for, and as you point out, a quiet, disconnected driving experience, Lexus, and now Buick, have a car for you.
Hyundai took a stab at the Lexus LS and Mercedes E class with the Genesis. Again, I don't know many who cross shopped the Genesis against the LS or E class. Some may have, I just never head of any.
I like Hyundais. My son has a 7 year old Elantra that's only taken routine maintenance over 100K miles. They've got that warranty going on. The dealership experience needs to improve dramatically if they plan on trying to match the dealership experience I've had with Acura or BMW. But, they'll get there, I think.
I had test driven the Genesis, both v6 and v8. It was more out of curiosity than anything else. Not bad cars. Again, not my cup of tea. I think those of us who drive TLs are looking for the luxury sport and refined suspension, and drivetrain that just isn't part of the package in something like a Genesis.
I also hear that their coming out with the Equs, which is supposed to go up against the Mecedes S class.
I think the folks who look at the Genesis may very well cross shop Buick, though.
I just don't see a Hyundai, any Hyundai, being cross shopped with a TL. An Accord? A Camry or Avalon? Probably.
#1832 of 2001 Re: Lexus [graphicguy]
Jun 26, 2010 (7:04 am)
I agree that while the Hyundai "competes" with a TL pricewise, that I don't know how many people actually cross shop the 2.
You're right about the GS - If you're going to spend the better part of almost $50K on a car, you'd better like it more than a little bit.
My Problem with Lexus/Toyota besides the whole disconnected driving snoozefest is the fact that the Toyotas are so nice, that really the only reason to buy a Lexus is for the badge or the V6. I'm sure they are not cross shopped and Toyota doesn't care if you buy a loaded V6 Camry or ES350 because either way they get the sale. I remember reading somewhere that 90 something percent of the Camrys sold are 4cyl. So if you want the V6, you're pretty much going to have to go Lexus as Toyota dealers probably don't stock V6 Camrys. Someone the other day mentioned the ES is not a re-skinned Camry. Both cars have the exact same 109.3" wheelbase indicating they are the same car.