Last post on Oct 22, 2012 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#1793 of 2001 Re: finally found it [graphicguy]
Jun 18, 2010 (6:44 pm)
faster is not always better as pointed out by other TL owners --sport is about driving and not cruising, its about driver feel and not only how the car performs but how it looks and how it reacts - I find it funny when people talk about traffic and how it sucks to have a manual-- sure its more work but if you get a good car with a slick stick (like acura offers) its not bad at all to deal with--2nd gear and some clutch work all you need- no break needed if done right- and you have your daily driver.
I know the economy stinks but acura introduced this car as the 2009 model and they sold 33k cars --new model mind you --sure honda sales in 2009 were down 20% y/y -- but in 2004-06 (3 yrs) it sold 75k on avg.- its clear that most performance lux car buyers are not looking at the brand- even with the great lease rates and commercials about how safe they are. (do the math on manuals from my previous post-- they are rare in TL form almost as rare as finding a BP supporter outside tony haywards family) So i would conclude that acura might depart from manuals quicker then other U.S. based lux brands and concentrate on Lexus not BMW (or have they already done this and not told the owners??) I think lux makers that support the sport market will continue to offer manuals (in limited form).
here is the data from 09
Jun 19, 2010 (7:51 am)
It will take awhile to move in the direction Acura wants to move. My perception, as I've mentioned before, is that the TL is positioned as a "tweener". It's between a BMW 3 and 5 series (closer in 5 series size and performance, but closer to the 3 series in price), between an Audi A4 and A6 (same comparison to BMW).
You could probably make that same comparison between the Infiniti G and M, although the M is available in a V8 (where the Acura RL was going before the Honda cutbacks), and the G is moving down market with the G25. Given the announcement for the G25, I see it competing more in the Buick Regal sandbox.
Given that Acura revamped their entire lineup in the last 2-3 years, based on the interviews I've heard with their execs, they knew it was going to take a little while for the dramatic changes to be accepted. That being said, I see next year as being a nice one for them.
Regarding manual trans, good luck finding a manual trans BMW, Audi, Mercedes on a dealer's lot. You'd probably have better luck finding a manual trans Acura TL than any of those other brands.
A Lexus buyer is substantially different than those who'd buy any of the brands above. The Lexus buyer would not like the ride of any of those car brands, regardless of how well they handle.
Lexus' target was Buick (probably Cadillac, too). They hit a bulls-eye. Now, GM/Buick is hitting back. Again, I don't see much cross shopping with those and Acura/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Infiniti and Buick/Lexus.
#1795 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 19, 2010 (8:13 am)
While I agree with you on almost all points graphic, I have always felt that of the 3 main German luxury companies, Mercedes as been pretty close to Lexus in regards to soft ride, less precise handling (compared to Audi and especially BMW) and more focused on luxury comfort then sport performance like Audi and BMW are!
if anything, I think the luxury cross shopping goes as follows:
with Cadillac and Acura kind of thrown in between all these depending on what model Acura or Cadillac people are considering!
just my two cents!
#1796 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 19, 2010 (7:07 pm)
Why the new TSX wagon? Do they have another car in the pipeline that would "advance" the line ? Because if not those growing pains will continue.
Bring back the legend, integra, nsx - Acura has lost its vigor.
#1797 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [smarty666]
Jun 20, 2010 (6:50 am)
smarty .....I can see how your grouping may very well be how those brands perceive themselves.
No big disagreement, except that I could see a Mercedes buyer looking at a Cadillac....maybe a Buick....probably cross shop a Lexus, too.
BMW/Audi/Infiniti, more or less is where Acura plays. Again, the size and performance of a 5 series, A6, or M series, for the price of a 3 series, A4 or a G.
#1798 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 20, 2010 (8:54 am)
yeap, exactly what I was talking about! Cadillac and Acura are cross shopped among all the other luxury brands depending on what model your looking at! I know that because of how many comparisons, awards, etc the MDX gets, that is cross shopped with a lot of other luxury SUVs!
#1799 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [smarty666]
Jun 20, 2010 (1:11 pm)
MDX is a nice rig- but its not the flagship to a brand. Whats acuras next move to make it stand out in the lux car market? Graphguy you said that the CEO was optimistic on the future, and said that next year will be a good year--but why? Buick (advertising on this very page) will undercut them on price and offer similar fwd performance on sedans. They will struggle to gain share but its a viable option if your looking to buy a car and not lease one. Lexus has its "brand", BMW has it on performance, Infiniti on its diverse line of cars, Audi on its performance/german heritage. whats the next move for acura?
My feel is they need a sports car-- a Viable flagship with a V8-- A coupe a convertible and a hybrid- bring back the legend (coupe and sedan). Stop recycling the same cars (accords) and put out something that puts it on the leader board and not a company like the atlanta braves- sure good competitive team but never wins the ring.
#1800 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [smarty666]
Jun 20, 2010 (4:34 pm)
smarty...I think the MDX is actually the very definition of the luxury SUV segment more than any of the other lux SUVs on the market.
sween....Acura made it's bones with arguably the best 6 cyl engines on the market throughout their existence. They've either delayed or canceled the V8 they had planned for the RL. While another NSX would be exciting, it would be a very low volume car. Even the previous one came with a 6 cyl.
V8s are falling out of favor except in the muscle cars and the largest SUVs.
The Acura Prez wants to have the brand be viewed as leading edge compared to the competition of BMWs, Mercedes, etc. I had a video interview with him a couple of months ago, but can't remember where I saw it.
Again, seems like you like the Buick. Not my cup of tea, and haven't heard anyone except you who would cross shop the Acura with a Buick, but to each their own.
#1801 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 20, 2010 (5:51 pm)
best 6cly engines in the market thats an interesting statement-- where can they prove that- or can you provide documentation that this is the case? They delayed the V8 prob because they could not sell a RL - while the NSX did prove to be a low volume car-the line did use its technology (like the Vtec) and incorporate it into other cars-they also cut back on indi racing- Lexus now has a supercar- at a stupid price - toyota has its nascar backing-- nissan has a supercar and a Z car-- BMW has the M line-- Audi the S line (plus racing)- and Benz has AMG.
I agree with you on V8's are now "falling out of favor" as the ford taurus sho commercials tell you, but to be a true lux car you need a standard V8 (atleast one). Each one of the flagships have one.. except the RL.
To say the acura prez wants to have a brand leading view - i would agree that the brand has great technology - the AWD is interesting but nothing its comp doesnt offer-- great nav i'm guessing hes talking about..none of which comes to power or performance-and its styling is one that only the CEO would love.
Standard TL shoppers are looking a buick dont kid yourself..
I'll be into Buick in maybe 10 years -and in my mid 40's..while i'm cross shopping it against Acura- the buick folks are noticing (look to your right, another laCrosse ad) i woundn't knock the car if i was you- its the same as the standard TL just better looking.
#1802 of 2001 Re: Acura's direction [sweendogy]
Jun 20, 2010 (11:09 pm)
sweendogy, I got to agree with graphicguy that few people in the market for performance sedan would cross-shop Buick with Acura/Audi/BMW/Infiniti, maybe not even Lexus buyers.
You often mentioned Buick, but have you driven a LaCrosse or Regal yet? While Buick may have improved with these new models, it is hard to imagine that its cars suddenly are on par with those segment leaders in terms of quality and performance. Even if initial data looks good, the long term reliability and resale value are still big question marks.
You said that you will be into Buick in 10 years. Wondering why wait that long if you think so highly of it? I found it especially interesting because, like you, I also drive the Infiniti G. I just can't see how a G owner would want to move into a Buick. The only GM car I would consider is the Cadillac CTX -- a RWD sedan.
C&D just had a comparison test among Huyndai Genesis, Lexus ES350, Buick LaCrosse, and Ford Taurus Limited (not SHO), and they finished in that order. C&D did a good job in picking these contestants. IMO, that's the group Buick belongs to.