Last post on Oct 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#1790 of 2002 Re: finally found it [jtla]
Jun 18, 2010 (4:16 am)
I agree about the paddle shifters. I have a 2007 TLS with Paddle Shifters basically as a compromise for my wife to drive it. I am a MT Guy all the way. The Paddle Shifters suck! There is a lag in between shifts up or down and they are just NOT FUN! Acura needs to improve the functionality of the Paddle Shifters. Nothing like a MT that ties the driver to the car! Paddle Shifters take out all the fun!
#1791 of 2002 Re: finally found it [gbosil]
Jun 18, 2010 (6:48 am)
I drove a 4 speed 1965 Chevy Camaro, YELLOW, when I was in high school back in the 60's. Over the years since then and a lot of Big City stop and go driving , convinced me to go with a more relaxing Automatic. However you may want to try the SH-AWD and the paddle shifters. For me these are a BLAST and a lot of fun, as it takes me back to having that control. The Paddle Shifters and how they respond are totally new for 2009-10. I find them very fast on the shift... I took it down to Qualcomm Stadium here in San Diego (Chargers Football)... and put the TL through its paces.. When I was GOOD at using a manual I was Real Fast, and it is FUN for sure, but at 62, having the luxury of a super smooth Automatic, a "S" mode and also the Paddles, just is a sweet combination of all three! BTW, some may feel that the "S" mode means paddles, not true. In S mode it is still automatic but holds the gear a bit longer based on acceleration and torque. However once you hit the paddles in "S" it does not shift till you tell it to shift, but it will shift from 2 to 1 if you are coming to a stop for safety reason... It may also shift out at redline, but i always shift at 750 RPM BELOW red line!
#1792 of 2002 Re: finally found it [rlonn1]
Jun 18, 2010 (1:57 pm)
manumatics are compromises without a doubt. However, as most point out, the market for manual trans cars is minute. Hell, even I wouldn't mind owning one again in the form of the TL SH AWD. Loved driving the one I test drove. Truth is, I the auto version and the manual version are so good, I would be happy to live with either (actually, I do )
I'm not so certain I'd be one to drive a manual trans on a day-to-day basis. I've had them in muscle cars, in the first BMW I owned, and in Japan based sports cars. Fun on weekends. Fun in good weather. Day-to-day? Not so much, especially in traffic, in bad weather, etc.
Just my opinion, of course.
I don't see availability ever getting better, and probably leaving the U.S. based luxury cars entirely at some point.
As an example of how good automatics have become, I remember reading one of the trade rags a little while ago where they tested an automatic 'vette vs a manual trans 'vette. The automatic 'vette was faster.
#1793 of 2002 Re: finally found it [graphicguy]
Jun 18, 2010 (5:44 pm)
faster is not always better as pointed out by other TL owners --sport is about driving and not cruising, its about driver feel and not only how the car performs but how it looks and how it reacts - I find it funny when people talk about traffic and how it sucks to have a manual-- sure its more work but if you get a good car with a slick stick (like acura offers) its not bad at all to deal with--2nd gear and some clutch work all you need- no break needed if done right- and you have your daily driver.
I know the economy stinks but acura introduced this car as the 2009 model and they sold 33k cars --new model mind you --sure honda sales in 2009 were down 20% y/y -- but in 2004-06 (3 yrs) it sold 75k on avg.- its clear that most performance lux car buyers are not looking at the brand- even with the great lease rates and commercials about how safe they are. (do the math on manuals from my previous post-- they are rare in TL form almost as rare as finding a BP supporter outside tony haywards family) So i would conclude that acura might depart from manuals quicker then other U.S. based lux brands and concentrate on Lexus not BMW (or have they already done this and not told the owners??) I think lux makers that support the sport market will continue to offer manuals (in limited form).
here is the data from 09
Jun 19, 2010 (6:51 am)
It will take awhile to move in the direction Acura wants to move. My perception, as I've mentioned before, is that the TL is positioned as a "tweener". It's between a BMW 3 and 5 series (closer in 5 series size and performance, but closer to the 3 series in price), between an Audi A4 and A6 (same comparison to BMW).
You could probably make that same comparison between the Infiniti G and M, although the M is available in a V8 (where the Acura RL was going before the Honda cutbacks), and the G is moving down market with the G25. Given the announcement for the G25, I see it competing more in the Buick Regal sandbox.
Given that Acura revamped their entire lineup in the last 2-3 years, based on the interviews I've heard with their execs, they knew it was going to take a little while for the dramatic changes to be accepted. That being said, I see next year as being a nice one for them.
Regarding manual trans, good luck finding a manual trans BMW, Audi, Mercedes on a dealer's lot. You'd probably have better luck finding a manual trans Acura TL than any of those other brands.
A Lexus buyer is substantially different than those who'd buy any of the brands above. The Lexus buyer would not like the ride of any of those car brands, regardless of how well they handle.
Lexus' target was Buick (probably Cadillac, too). They hit a bulls-eye. Now, GM/Buick is hitting back. Again, I don't see much cross shopping with those and Acura/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Infiniti and Buick/Lexus.
#1795 of 2002 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 19, 2010 (7:13 am)
While I agree with you on almost all points graphic, I have always felt that of the 3 main German luxury companies, Mercedes as been pretty close to Lexus in regards to soft ride, less precise handling (compared to Audi and especially BMW) and more focused on luxury comfort then sport performance like Audi and BMW are!
if anything, I think the luxury cross shopping goes as follows:
with Cadillac and Acura kind of thrown in between all these depending on what model Acura or Cadillac people are considering!
just my two cents!
#1796 of 2002 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 19, 2010 (6:07 pm)
Why the new TSX wagon? Do they have another car in the pipeline that would "advance" the line ? Because if not those growing pains will continue.
Bring back the legend, integra, nsx - Acura has lost its vigor.
#1797 of 2002 Re: Acura's direction [smarty666]
Jun 20, 2010 (5:50 am)
smarty .....I can see how your grouping may very well be how those brands perceive themselves.
No big disagreement, except that I could see a Mercedes buyer looking at a Cadillac....maybe a Buick....probably cross shop a Lexus, too.
BMW/Audi/Infiniti, more or less is where Acura plays. Again, the size and performance of a 5 series, A6, or M series, for the price of a 3 series, A4 or a G.
#1798 of 2002 Re: Acura's direction [graphicguy]
Jun 20, 2010 (7:54 am)
yeap, exactly what I was talking about! Cadillac and Acura are cross shopped among all the other luxury brands depending on what model your looking at! I know that because of how many comparisons, awards, etc the MDX gets, that is cross shopped with a lot of other luxury SUVs!
#1799 of 2002 Re: Acura's direction [smarty666]
Jun 20, 2010 (12:11 pm)
MDX is a nice rig- but its not the flagship to a brand. Whats acuras next move to make it stand out in the lux car market? Graphguy you said that the CEO was optimistic on the future, and said that next year will be a good year--but why? Buick (advertising on this very page) will undercut them on price and offer similar fwd performance on sedans. They will struggle to gain share but its a viable option if your looking to buy a car and not lease one. Lexus has its "brand", BMW has it on performance, Infiniti on its diverse line of cars, Audi on its performance/german heritage. whats the next move for acura?
My feel is they need a sports car-- a Viable flagship with a V8-- A coupe a convertible and a hybrid- bring back the legend (coupe and sedan). Stop recycling the same cars (accords) and put out something that puts it on the leader board and not a company like the atlanta braves- sure good competitive team but never wins the ring.