Article Comments - 2008 Lexus LS 600h L Full Test

9 messages, Last post on Jul 12, 2007 at 7:18 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus LS 600h, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

Article comments for Full Test: 2008 Lexus LS 600h L - To compete, Lexus needed a new flagship, one with a six-figure price tag and more power. So the company has created the LS 600h L, a V8-powered hybrid sedan that is first and foremost a luxury liner. (more)

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#1 of 9 Article Comments - 2008 Lexus LS 600h L Full Test by KarenS HOST Apr 23, 2007 (8:22 am)
A super luxury hybrid? Read the article and post your comments here. Full Test: 2008 Lexus LS 600h L
#2 of 9 2008 vs. 2007 EPA fuel economy ratings???! by excelsior88 Apr 23, 2007 (11:05 am)
This review compares the LS 600h L's 2008 EPA fuel economy ratings vs. the LS 460 L's 2007 EPA ratings. This is misleading as it's known that the EPA is in the process of changing its testing methodology. I was surprised to see that a major automotive news site did not remember this. But other publications did their homework. According to AutoWeek's article on the LS hybrid, "the EPA rating system changes for 2008 and can’t be compared to any 2007 model’s rating." http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/FREE/70423001/1004 AutoWeek further quotes the EPA: "EPA says you can expect a non-hybrid model’s rating to go down, perhaps by 10 percent or more. So the situation is likely to flip-flop in ’08, and Lexus may be able to claim that its hybrid will get better mileage than the gas-only model." To be credible, Edmunds should note this significant detail in their analysis--and correct the inaccurate comparison made in the article and video. Replies to this message: ledfoot1 (Apr 24, 2007 8:44 am) excelsior88 (Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am) lexustech (Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm)
#3 of 9 Flop by desmolicious Apr 23, 2007 (12:24 pm)
So it costs a lot more than the regular version, looks the same, is heavier, doesn't get better mpg or mph and has a smaller trunk? A sure fire recipe for sales success!
#4 of 9 MPG by excelsior88 Apr 23, 2007 (2:23 pm)
Edmunds compared the 2007 and 2008 EPA figures to reach a misleading conclusion. And, speaking of sales success, 1,850 preorders of 2,000 allocated suggests a promising start. Replies to this message: gagrice (Apr 23, 2007 4:37 pm) designman (Apr 23, 2007 4:49 pm)
#5 of 9 Re: MPG [excelsior88] by gagrice Apr 23, 2007 (4:37 pm)
Replying to: excelsior88 (Apr 23, 2007 2:23 pm) At least two of those pre-orders here at Edmund's are having second thoughts. The RX400 had thousands of people lined up. The final sales did not add up to the pre-ordered enthusiasm.
#6 of 9 Re: MPG [excelsior88] by designman Apr 23, 2007 (4:49 pm)
Replying to: excelsior88 (Apr 23, 2007 2:23 pm) And, speaking of sales success, 1,850 preorders of 2,000 allocated suggests a promising start. Not really. There's trepidation on Lexus' part. If it's so promising why is there limited production when there is so much demand? It remains to be seen where this is going. There is more to this than meets the eye, and I believe it pertains to what hybrids cost to produce vs level of demand.
#7 of 9 Re: 2008 vs. 2007 EPA fuel economy ratings???! [excelsior88] by ledfoot1 Apr 24, 2007 (8:44 am)
Replying to: excelsior88 (Apr 23, 2007 11:05 am) [quote]"EPA says you can expect a non-hybrid model’s rating to go down, perhaps by 10 percent or more. So the situation is likely to flip-flop in ’08, and Lexus may be able to claim that its hybrid will get better mileage than the gas-only model."[/quote] Sorry, but you've only got half the story here. EPA also says that hybrids will take an even bigger hit--up to 30% or more--. The biggest reason that the EPA rating is even being revamped is that it has until now been completely unable to provide realistic numbers for hybrid cars and their mileage has been grossly over estimated. So, chances are that with the new 2008 EPA ratings, the gas-only model may even get _better_ mileage ratings than the hybrid. Replies to this message: excelsior88 (Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am) lexustech (Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm)
#8 of 9 Re: 2008 vs. 2007 EPA fuel economy ratings???! [ledfoot1] by excelsior88 Apr 24, 2007 (10:43 am)
Replying to: ledfoot1 (Apr 24, 2007 8:44 am) The inflated numbers for hybrids refers to the high-mileage ones such as the Prius and Civic Hybrid. Fact is, the numbers for the LS 600h L ARE 2008 numbers already. Changes are much more likely that with the 2008 EPA ratings, the gas-only model will get lower mileage ratings. The new EPA testing will go up to 80 mph, not 55 as the 2007 testing did. My point is, if Edmunds wants to talk about MPG, they should compare the testing fairly and equally. AutoWeek states it clearly, Edmunds uses a misleading comparison. Not to mention, the MPG of gas-guzzling V12 competitors is likely to go down even further when the 2008 EPA tests are done. There is more to this than meets the eye, and I believe it pertains to what hybrids cost to produce vs level of demand. Agreed, it depends on a number of things. I think Lexus is wading into the $100K territory with some trepidation indeed. And for the record, the RX 400h had 9,000 preorders at launch (mid-2005). In 2006, the RX 400h accounted for 11,193 units. Absolutely every prospective buyer should consider their choices carefully, and any preorder is not a confirmed order. But I'd wager that most of the preorders will translate into sales, barring any major catastrophe Replies to this message: lexustech (Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm)
#9 of 9 Re: 2008 vs. 2007 EPA fuel economy ratings???! [excelsior88] by lexustech Jul 12, 2007 (7:18 pm)
Replying to: excelsior88 (Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am) The biggest problem lexus the with the 400H was the drivetrain setup drained too much electricity above 40 mph to take true advantage of the hybrid system at highway speeds. This resulted in lexus telling it's sales assocaites to properly inform customers that while the 400H was still more powerfull at higher speeds, the fuel economy figures were actually slightly lower at hwy speeds. Lexus has engineered a better powertrain for the subsequent GS450H and is implenting this strategy for all newly designed hybrids. This will let the hybrids in each line to have not only more power and speed than the other models in the line up, but also better fuel economy at all speeds. In essence the hybrids are the Lexus premiere model of each body line. Sales will grow as consumers assimilate the new status that "HYBRID" has become within the lexus ranks, not a money saver, but the fastest AND most effecient class for the model.