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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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If the Domestics declare bankruptcy, (will ford want the same deal even if they don't?) will the UAW still be in a reconstituted minority of auto plants? Will there still be labor costs from "stewards" in their blue shirts and golf carts enforcing "rules" (designed to make unskilled labor scarce at $20/hr) within the plant. What is this Union crap? The highest Union percentage of labor in the USA was about 30% in the mid 1950's. This was when the rest of the world was crawling out of a bomb crater. Unless with the big milk cow companies and industries they were useless, getting labor marginal wage increases in the small shops and taking half that for the Union and the Democrats. I believe the percentage is about 7% now in the private sector jobs, most of that heavily dependent on gov't contracts mandating union wages. I believe about 30% of the govt jobs are unionized. Of course the tab for this is picked up by 85% of the non union workforce. Even if they did get sizeable wage increases, their membership would drop off due to lower sales. (one can sell a lot more of the product at $500 than $1400) The 84% of non-unionized workers would pay the tab. The union's biggest enemy in the world has always been: 1) Math (the enemy of all socialists/etc...) 2) Computers and automation 3) Corruption (there are a lot of holes in the desert... exactly where is hoffa?) 4) 5-6 billion (85%) of the worlds population who would give their left nut for $3000/yr. 5) The massive growth of the market outside of the G7 countries. Any "fortress America" "buy American" etc tradewar would be cutting our own export throats. Just read my previous post. Even under recent circumstances many of you idiots could have had it all. ---------------------------------------- The UAW guys could have had it all, at least fr a lot longer. Many saw the problems, the golf cart stewards in their blue shirts shutting down the production line in pissing contests with management. ("safety" issues) Stewards "cutting out" with their buds to go bowling down the street. Ridiculously low quotas for some work stations a determined worker could complete in 2 hrs and read the paper the rest of the day. (and thumb his nose at management when he did it) UAW membership dropping 70%? in 20 years. Despite a large increase in the U.S. sales.(It didn't occur to them it wasn't working?) The only thing keeping the Domestics afloat was the "outsourcing" of parts to small mechanized machine shops around the country. 15 years ago "outsourcing" was considered to be the traitorous shifting of labor from ridiculously expensive American union shops to far less expensive American non-union shops. The concept of overseas wasn't mentioned much. I have a customer who makes $12/hr operating a cnc machine producing parts for the local Ford plant. When not doing that he resets for parts from 4 other companies in 2 separate industries. A UAW high school dropout would be paid 4x as much to do 1/5 the work. (and believing he's getting "shafted"). Other UAW workers who knew how lucky they were were powerless. Exceeding quota would make other workers "look bad", and reveal the need for less workers. Work ethic could be highly discouraged. One lady got really reamed by the stewards for consistently producing too much product. "I just get so bored doing nothing" she explained to me. She eventually got to enjoy solitare. Of course absenteeinsm and alcoholism, $30/hr janitors... we won't go there. The Democratic party's unholy alliance with the deal. (mostly northern "Blue States" aka "rust belt". $70/hr pay packages meant hefty union dues with the Democrats hand in the payroll through union contributions (98% to Democrats) The infamous "jobs bank". Hmmmm hardly no other plants lay workers off at full pay to go play pool, at $29/hr much less $50+. Great deal if all the workers could share in this. Unfortunately, only 1-2% of (politically connected) workers can get it and the rest pay up for the products. There's no way a bunch of high school dropouts/GED folks, with an extra layer of management (union/stewards) ,pay packages 40%? higher than competitors and with rigid work rules (how many UAW guys does it take to change a light bulb..) are going to compete with college educated employees unhindered by such in other plants in automobile manufacturing. The dog won't hunt with $3.00 gas. Save the flag waving/pearl harbor/working class hero crap for those who don't know any better. Mostly driven "domestic" nameplates all my life, but what they say about watching "sausage being made" surely applied here. Put a fork in the UAW/domestics for consumer autos. They're done. The Democrats will throw them 30-40 billion (of your tax money making much less/hr. ) to have them float another year. Some of the "skilled" trades were pulling down $170+k/yr (actual salary sans benefits) with overtime. The dolts should leave the stewards/golf carts/UAW leadership in a ditch. Good luck folks --jjf
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Replying to: jfritsch (Feb 28, 2009 5:51 am) Cars are now a commodity...any country can make 'em better and cheaper than Detroit UAW. Here's to the new owners in a non-union environment!  Regards, OW |
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Replying to: circlew (Feb 28, 2009 5:24 am) Betrayal would be if they gave back something the rank and file still wanted.
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Replying to: mikefm58 (Feb 28, 2009 5:25 am)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Feb 28, 2009 6:10 am) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: sidious6688 (Feb 28, 2009 3:10 am) Again we act as if the UAW and unions are the only special interest in this great American society. The medical field has done more to distort the market and thereby adding cost to every company. This is the single most advantage of moving/relocating overseas. They are all lined up in Washington and grease the wheel. Seeking to lobby our elected representatives. Do they add any value to any product? This is the very concept of touch labor/value added the Japanese hold in high esteem. We seem to like this concept and ignore others. Their compensation of executives and share the employee for life mantra seem to be missing from our corporate community. Then we are now in this " I'm bored generation". This is a whole new breed of wildcat. With technology they will free up mankind from the toil of the 40 work week. They will assure that everyone has the basic needs taken car of. We will be in short supply of folks to do what many here consider worthless jobs. Govt will have to require the average citizen to sweep floors or such tasks one day a week. Such will be the human condition. Many here want the next generation to endure the same or worse, I've got news for you. They have hundreds of channels on the television, the internet, video games, movies on demand, cell phones, IPODs, and an entire host of things to amuse themselves with. Then they still manage to get bored. The last 7 years of auto engineering technology is equal to the prior 70 years in terms of technology. I would be hard pressed to find regression in mankind. Its retarded to think we cannot innovate our way into a better human condition. Imagine that 95% of the population was needed to grow the nations food supply and today its less than 5%. Then ponder the thought of the out house and indoor plumbing. One cannot expect to return back to the horse and buggy days of ole, just by looking at history. Then at this time we will see what "pursuit of happiness" is.
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I am impressed. Our friend DD1 posting fair and balanced. Realizing the sins of the past are a big factor in the current failure of the D3 UAW unholy alliance. Kipk: Good run down on the rise and demise of Detroit iron. I lost interest in the early 1960s. Bought a POC Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. They tried to copy the Chevy inline 6 cylinder using old beer cans and it was totally inferior to the GM original. Wish I still had it with a modern drive train. jfritsch: UAW membership dropping 70%? in 20 years. Despite a large increase in the U.S. sales.(It didn't occur to them it wasn't working?) Thank you for an insider's view of the UAW shops. That kind of says it in a nutshell. The UAW has just gone along fat, dumb and Happy while their ranks have been diminishing at an alarming rate. The retirees took their early pensions without a thought for the future. Anyone with half a brain could see that a big loss of UAW members would diminish the automakers contribution to the retirees. Now when faced with reality, they want the rest of the USA to pay for their continuing high lifestyle. The key being the average tax payer living in an average home. It is not so hard to feel compassion for the person living in the ghetto needing food stamps. It is a push for a tax payer living in a modest home to be forced to subsidize a UAW worker or retiree that has a McMansion in the burbs with a Caddy and Denali sitting in the driveway. A $300,000 RV and boat along side the house with a cabin on Black Lake where they spend months in the summer playing golf subsidized by the UAW at their fancy resort. So what is the UAW retiree and 5+ year employee giving up NOW to save the Domestic automakers? All I see is talk for the future aside from the jobs bank. |
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Replying to: jfritsch (Feb 28, 2009 5:51 am) You are in for the great awakening as there are folks in Mexico willing to do it for $1.20 an hour and $.12 in China. Mazak is the largest machine tool builder in the world and China is its biggest customer. They have broke ground and are building CNC machines in China. It just a matter of time before your bloated costs are no longer tolerated. |
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