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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: cwalti (Jan 24, 2009 11:56 pm) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 25, 2009 5:55 am) The UAW is its membership and are not a for profit organization. They/we protect the rights of workers. Point is that the UAW is its membership and not some monster from another planet. #1 -C11 is NOT going under...it's coming out from under. #2 - The UAW will die a hard death...as a membership organization. Watch and see. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: wiseman (Jan 25, 2009 7:06 am) Only if you had a JOB. This leads to the question of the entire society reducing its wages. Only because half of the pay could buy us just as much. FORGET it this is no race to the bottom and we don't need to compete with obscene wages of the third world. Please, explain to these folks that they would be as well off if they had their wages slashed in half. Did the banks reduce mortgage/car payments in half also? Maybe, we should pay the bank interest to hold our money?
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 25, 2009 6:41 am) The transplants build plants and hire non-union because it is financially prudent for them to serve this market. Say B-Bye to your Union Fellowship. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 25, 2009 9:24 am) Old banks with idiots will fail and go away. New banks will take over the mess. Relax. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: wiseman (Jan 25, 2009 7:19 am) Is that the school which allows freshmen to not count their grades into GPA? does MIT stand for Made In Taiwan? Does a GED from MIT count as more than a GED from another institution? glad you read up on what Gresham's Law is. Psst, I didn't read up on Gresham's Law. I took economics at the University of Texas. We don't want old tried and true laws twisted into any fashion here in the south. Its true about what Orwell said and lexicon of the language being twisted to mean the opposite. Thats how the word liberal became something bad, when prior it was free marketers/free trade. Just how do you suppose the UAW came to be something bad to the society? If we arbitrarily command (by fiat) that all workers should be paid the same regardless the productivity of each, the "good ones" who are worth more will exit the system, and the "bad ones" who are worth less than the command price will have an incentive to stay. So, if I do twice as much as my peer on the job, will management pay me twice as much? They are in fact only paying for one set of benefits and therefore much better off as they having to hire two employees to equal my production. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 25, 2009 9:42 am) So f I can work circles around my other UAW factory worker, why should I? Will the Union fight for double the salary because I can eliminate one or even 2 of my disinterested counterparts? Fughedaboudit! I slow down to the going rate! That's progress for ya! Regards, OW
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 25, 2009 7:22 am) I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime, an African American as president. If that isn't the American dream or nightmare if your among the GOP, what is? They'll never quit envying what others are making. At most non union and union plants the pay is kept secret and discussion about pay are not topics of conversation. For the same reason we have a problem here about what others get, envy.
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Replying to: wiseman (Jan 25, 2009 8:14 am) predicting what they would do to take care of their own family This all reeks of another great depression. Then your predicting that the banks will have to ask for more in bail-outs? Are you saying that's all UAW members good for? That no re-organized carmaker or new carmaker or any maker of anything else would ever hire an ex-UAW member? No, I personally believe that China will come in and see this as an opportunity to buy the plants at a fire sale. Besides, they were very prudent to invest in T-bills as the fools let their money ride on the market. Just who do you thik the UAW members are? They are no different that you or I. But, all I was saying is that the 7% unemployment is not the truth, when it excludes two groups of people whom are either unemployed and or under employed.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 25, 2009 8:53 am) If consumers are forced to overpay for cars, they will have less money left to pay for the fruits of other people's labor. As simple as that. UAW demanding higher wages is in effect ripping off other workers in other industries. Price mechanism is a matter of everyone voting with his/her wallet regarding what's more important. Union is about coercing someone else to pay more; like your contempt for consumer choice indicated. [But we also recognize that we cannot have a functioning and civil society in which auto workers get paid only what unfettered market forces will deliver to them. ] Speak for yourself please. I never recognized such nonsense. Why should cab driver be unprotected? Why should horse cab drivers be unprotected? "CEOs achieve the same thing by way of the disgraceful corporate governance practices we use. Hedge fund managers basically sucker people into paying them on an absurd compensation scheme. " Yes, I'm against high pay for CEO's of government agencies. Hedge funds do not manage tax money. I'm against bailout of hedge funds too. If UAW can con people into paying out of their own pockets instead of trying to get tax money, I'd have no problem with UAW. [You say unions started for a good reason.] I Never said such a thing. Sorry. [Now the debtors are saying, guess what, you won't let us extract enough wages out of the economy to make a living, so f- you, we are not going to pay our mortgage and our credit card bills. ] Yep, tough luck on the creditors who lent to the borrowers. The very justification for the high interest rate on unsecured loans is that this kind default risk exist. So, it's time for the creditors who were the enablers of irresponsible borrowing to pay up. [Banning the unions won't solve the underlying problem] Union members are free to maintain their club at their own expense if they wish, just stop brandishing the baseball bats, and stop occupying plants when the property owners ask them to leave. [I don't know what the answer is. . . .If someone follows the rules and works hard, shouldn't they be able to have a reasonable standard of living in the richest country that has every existed on the planet? ] Yes, from a competing employer. Just like Ford had to wage in 1914 to more than double the unionized coal mine wages in order to keep his workers. Workers had alternatives at other factories, that's why they left Ford after finding out how demanding and boring it was to work on the moving production line. Ford's method was more productive, so he could afford to pay more . . . more than double the prevailing wage, even compared to the unionized coal mines at that time. ". . . unless we as a society are willing to just allow the least skilled among us to live in poverty and squalor as they compete with one another for the crumbs we are willing to throw to them . . ." Keep that thought in mind when the next time replacement workers show up to take a job that pays more than their previous job would. The story that unions keeping workers out of poverty and squalor is a fiction; the reality is that unions try to keep non-union workers in poverty and squalor by physically threat and intimidate replacement workers who are chumping at the bits for an improvement in living standard. "I have always been a believer in free market and the invisible hand and low taxes and all the rest." I doubt that very much, given your contempt for consumer choice, and given your ealier glorifed recollection of government agencies having invented everything. Don't take me wrong, it's not an insult to you personally. Most people coming out government schools probably think the same way too . . . it takes time and exposure to the reality to get many of the misconceptions corrected.
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