Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16657 messages, Last post on Nov 08, 2009 at 12:40 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
|
|---|---|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 11, 2009 8:20 pm) He actually made less than $2 million last year per the restructuring plan submitted. All those millions of stock options are worthless.
|
|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 11, 2009 9:01 pm) Go back & read the post to which I was replying. The OP made what I thought was an excellent point: GM ceded the market for small luxury cars - like the 3-series BMW & the Audi A4 - to the Germans, thereby forfeiting billions in profits. GM was blind when it came to this segment of the market. Its top executives believed that the only people who bought small cars were people who couldn't afford big cars. Did any of them ever drive a BMW 325? Suppose that Cadillac had introduced a real 3-series competitor - a compact high-performance sports sedan or coupe - back in 1990. That car could have brought affluent baby boomers into the Cadillac fold, creating a customer base for larger & more expensive cars. Cadillac's failure to do this lost an entire generation of upper income buyers & cost the brand countless billions in profits. I know that you'd rather talk about AIG & right-wing media takeover conspiracies, but I'd prefer to discuss the criminal marketing & design blunders that led to the loss of a hugely profitable franchise. |
|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 11, 2009 9:32 pm) You are in denial. So blinded by UAW politics you cannot decipher what your own party is doing to this country. If you want to find Conservative Republicans check the 171 that voted against the bailouts. Bush has signed onto just about every liberal bill that has crossed his desk in an attempt to REACH out. Big mistake. He tossed his conservative roots into the liberal trash heap of politics.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 12, 2009 6:01 am) UAW has surprised coming. While Bush reached out, as soon as the democrats have regained power (now) they undid the rules republicans put in about committees and such that gave the minority party some power in congress (worked well for Bush while Dems were in power) but Pelosi and Reid are having none of sharing while the dems are in power. So Bush's reaching out hasn't done any good. The UAW seems to think that the dems are going to give them the advantage after Jan 20. Something gives me the feeling that Obama has already backed off on the miracle cures and promises from when he was campaigning. He may be just enough of a loose canon for the dems that UAW may not get overwhelming support just because they blindly contribute to dems and Obama. The tide of public opinion and Obama's need to try to show he has answers for the economy may mean UAW gives rather than gives. I'm watching to see how the other union contributor (NEA/AFT) does as far as getting since education is a states rights issue unlike the UAW's ideas of a government contribution to their money pots. I.E., I don't think Black Lake UAW golf resort will become a national park.
|
|
|
imidazol97 wrote: I would give mismanagement the nod especially in respect to having given the overpaid in benefits to UAW workers too much future financial gain rather than paying for their current worth in the past. Yup, it was management's fault as long as we overlook UAW's part in the whole process. That is exactly correct. Wagoner is a wimp and probably a closet UAW member. Look at his 15 years of bending over for the UAW. Jimbres Wrote: I guess so, because we were discussing Cadillac. Sometimes I can't figure out what you're trying to say, DD That would describe most of his responses. He cannot justify what the UAW has done so he throws up a smokescreen pointing to some totally irrelevant political scam. I am on the NO BAILOUTS PERIOD side with you... Mike Benoit has almost convinced me I should switch to Libertarian Party. Seeing how the Republicans are RINO Socialist in disguise. 62 wrote: He actually made less than $2 million last year per the restructuring plan submitted. All those millions of stock options are worthless. There you go throwing in facts to confuse the issue. That would bring Wagoner down to only about 18 to 1 over the UAW workers. Way below the average even in the UAW hey days of the 1960s. I would not take the job of trying to keep 70,000 whining prima donna UAW workers happy for that piddly amount. Not to mention the half million retirees that have not gotten the word that they killed the golden goose and have already eaten him for Christmas dinner. Jimbres: I'd prefer to discuss the criminal marketing & design blunders that led to the loss of a hugely profitable franchise. I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue that GM management dropped the ball on innovation many years ago. They have really not done a lot to excite the market in 40 years. They have lived off of the loyalty buyers. Waking up and realizing they have lost over half their market share should have got them moving. It did not. I think they are dead in the US. They went from over 50% in 1962 to 22% in 2007. Most of that was to Toyota and Honda. I don't believe it is because the American people like Japan better than they do the USA. We want the best vehicle for the money. When you add 10% to the cost of manufacturing a vehicle to pay for past sins. That has to come from somewhere. And it looks like GM decided to skimp on parts to pay the UAW retirees. They tossed the white collars under the bus. Much of the $66 billion in GM debt was to bring the Pension Fund into compliance. If the market continues to tank. GM will not be able to borrow enough to keep the pension fund solvent. We just loaned them another $14 billion bringing their debt to $80 billion or more. GM collapse is not a result of the current financial crisis. It has been going down hill since the 1990s. GM and the UAW have had plenty of time to address the issues and fix them. In 2003 GM's pension fund needed an infusion from the largest corporate debt offering in history. And the cost of providing health coverage for 1.1 million GM workers, retirees and dependents is estimated to be $5.6 billion this year. Their coverage is enviable -- at most, small co-payments for visits to doctors and for pharmaceuticals but no deductibles or monthly premiums. GM says health expenditures -- $1,525 per car produced; there is more health care than steel in a GM vehicle's price tag -- are one of the main reasons it lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter of 2005. Ford's profits fell 38 percent, and although Ford had forecast 2005 profits of $1.4 billion to $1.7 billion, it now probably will have a year's loss of $100 million to $200 million. All this while Toyota's sales are up 23 percent this year and Americans are buying cars and light trucks at a rate that would produce 2005 sales almost equal to the record of 17.4 million in 2000. In 1962 half the cars sold in America were made by GM. Now its market share is roughly 25 percent. In 1999 the Big Three -- GM, Ford, Chrysler -- had a 71 percent market share. Their share is now 58 percent and falling. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/29/AR2005042901385.- html
|
|
|
Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 12, 2009 6:12 am) You have touched on a couple interesting issues. First the schools. I was driving past our local middle school and a member of our church was changing the sign out in front. I stopped and found out he has volunteered to change the signs weekly at all three local schools. They have cut back on maintenance and do not have a paid Union person to do that job. This is a fairly affluent town. Black Lake presents another idea. I doubt it would get support as a National Park. It could be donated to the State as the Walter Reuther state park if it is as nice as some here say it is. The UAW could bid on the hotel and golf concession and solve their red ink issue. Many private parks and historic places get donated to the state. They could incorporate a UAW museum as a tourist attraction. The UAW did play a minor role in helping the working class in this country. 
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 12, 2009 6:59 am) Today, they have Nissan (Datsun), Toyota, Honda, VW (Audi), Mercedes, Jaguar, Volvo, Suzuki, Hundai/Kid, all lined up to sell cars here. Have I forgotten some brands (I know Jaguar Volvo are Ford and being sold)? In 1962 other brands competing with Chrysler, Ford, and GM were...? American Motors? Studebaker/Packard (on their way out), VW. Mercedes (barely), Opal, --who can add to this list. There weren't many and penetration was low for AMC and Studebaker. As more brands became accepted as the foreign cars came in, the US brands would lose market share. I'm not sure how I can put the UAW into that. Didn't they have some big strikes before 1962 which of course cost more for building the US brand cars.
|
|
|
"Its absurd to grant all these tax breaks to wealthy corporations and wait for the trickle down/supply side golden shower." I've wondered the exact opposite: why do we tax corporations at all? If we taxed only the profits made by the owners (stock holders) on dividends, stock sales and on the incomes of the employees wouldn't that make more sense. I don't understand why capital gains (to stock holders) are taxed at such a low rate, isn't that income, too? It is a shame that work is taxed at a higher rate than getting money from someone else's work.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 12, 2009 4:48 am)  Don't forget in a NON-union shop they can let you go at any time. That 2-week notice went out years ago by lobbiest of the NON-union companies. So when you get laid off do to economic hard times in a NON-union shop you must go down town and file for unemployment and defend for you're self and make little over $500.00 per week. In a UNION shop the Union and EMPLOYER work together to set up the unemployment and work shops to find you another JOB and pay you the $500.00 plus sub-pay for a few months to help you along untill you find another job when you're sub-pay runs out then you are paid just the $500.00
|
|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 11, 2009 8:54 pm) |
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
