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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16667 messages, Last post on Nov 10, 2009 at 3:38 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: manegi (Jan 10, 2009 4:15 pm) You have to consider that article was written by a UAW leader with an agenda. He would like to dump the blame for the mess in the Auto industry, he and his colleagues have created, onto anyone or any country. The UAW would say anything to deflect from their own part in the collapse. The 4 Horsemen was a very lame attempt, with little or no truth in fact, mostly fiction. Just one example: In the late 1990s a barrel of oil sold for $10. The Big 3 enjoyed strong sales and consistent profits GM did not make a decent profit throughout the 1990s when they were selling SUVs and PU trucks as fast as their little fingers could go. Of course it did not help that the UAW decided to strike right in the middle of a chance at making a decent profit. Wagoner is to blame. When the UAW went on strike in 1998 he could have gotten rid of the UAW millstone around his neck for good. He could have just shut down and moved every plant out of the country. It would have cost a few billion, while they still had a few billion in the bank. Now they are so broke they will have to borrow money just to pay the bankruptcy attorneys. |
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Replying to: manegi (Jan 10, 2009 4:15 pm) Sorry, a typo - it is 166%
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Replying to: manegi (Jan 10, 2009 4:36 pm) |
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I am by no means an expert here (some other posters here seem to have a much deeper understanding of this issue), but Japan has a National Health Insurance scheme (we all have to pay into the scheme, and then our medical expenses - or 70% of them - are covered by the insurance) which seems to satisfy the definition of a "socialized health service". You pay as a % of your income, but the returns you receive are based on your usage of the system. Thus high income groups pay a lot more than they get (since usually they also maintain better health)(I must have paid 20x more than what I have received from the system....). This system, while great for the below median income group, suffers from two major disadvantages (and this is not just my opinion, but a debate going on in Japan) : 1. It encourages inefficiencies. Hospitals have an incentive to keep people in hospitals for as long as possible (to increase occupancy rate - like a hotel...), since they can then charge National insurance for that. When my daughter was born, my wife was ready to go back home after two days (she was in the hospital because a C-section was required), but the Doctor told me "What is the hurry? She can stay here for another five days (the Insurance cover is for a maximum of seven days), so why go home and wash dishes? Here every thing is take care of, ha ha!". You get the point. 2. It is (like the US SS system) a sort of a ponzi scheme, in the sense that the insurance payments are based on the assumption that the population will keep on growing. Now that it is actually declining, the system is in a crisis, and they are starting to reduce the coverage (so the Government is now implementing a "cap" - where costs above a certain amount will require a larger percentage payment by the patient). Obviously for those who are healthier than average, the benefits of this scheme will continue to decline. There is a third (longer term) disadvantage too - Because this system can encourage the Hospitals and Pharmaceutical companies to gang up and gouge the insurance, Japan mandates a reduction in pricing for prescription drugs (e.g "7% lower this year than last year"). While this may solve the problem of over pricing, this reduces the returns Japanese pharmaceutical companies can get on their investments (since the price will always go down), and thus cannot compete with the likes of Glaxo Smith Kline (who are not mandated to reduce drug prices - and thus can charge whatever the market can bear). I am not sure which system is better, but just thought that since I live in a socialized system, this perspective might be helpful.
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Replying to: manegi (Jan 10, 2009 7:47 pm) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 10, 2009 4:15 pm) So there a case where someone takes advantage of the system. There is no fool proof system. Large banks have been had and don't want the bad press. Even Walmart has been conned. Big time! These are kept secret because they are bad for business. I won't go into the scams and add to the problem. However, they were anything but clever. Medicare and Medicaid are keeping less pencil pushers, no value added, folks out of the system. This is waste and so is the method in which over 50 different companies pay claims in 50 different states, with their own rules. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 10, 2009 12:22 pm) First of all, we know that parts are brought into this country and put together to avoid VAT. Its the same manner in which companies like to operate in Texas as oppose to other states. Fact is that if it weren't for the news, I wouldn't even know that we are in recession. Them fools are still building homes here. The United States has provided a better economic climate for business and hence we are the largest consumer nation on the planet. Then the currency manipulation is a fact of life. The central banks do this all the time. They do it to keep people like George Soros from making a cool billion in one days, as he has done in the past. Its legal and there are people out there looking for opportunities to do just this. The article is well written and if you can't see the point. You just don't understand macro economics. I'll go a step further and state that you have no earthly idea of what the end of the UAW/Big Three means. At best Toyota/Honda will be a niche market, much like MAC computers (10%) and China/India will make the rest. They might buy the logo/brand, but the end product will employ their population. Does anyone know if the big drug companies have to pay taxes if they are based in Puerto Rico? |
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Replying to: jimbres (Jan 10, 2009 1:32 pm) So you found out that your paying for the German health benefits in that BMW? So how much less and more appealing would the Caddy be if GM didn't have to bear the full cost of the American health benefits and it was spread out across the entire economy? how does the VAT give them an advantage? It narrows the price gap, hence it makes their product more appealing than that of a UAW employees. My only argument is that taxing should be uniform worldwide. 1. Drop any tariffs, quotas or other special taxes on imported goods and services. 2. Drop any market-distorting practices, like selective subsidies, taxes, regulations or other policies that favor domestic or foreign products or services. 3. Provide free access to accurate information about the markets involved. 4. Allow money and other forms of capitol to flow unrestricted between countries, without currency manipulation or restrictions. 5. Labor must also be able to travel freely within the free-trade region. Then the UAW will have the advantage, we invented everything and that includes robotics, composites, and even the IPOD. Just like in the Olympics, we will take the gold again and again. We are the market they want entry into aka the Americans with deep pockets. The UAW has lots to do with that fact.
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The people left holding the bag are you and me. http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3415.cfm |
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