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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16701 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Jan 08, 2009 5:34 pm) All of which seems to be pretty far afield from . . . . . . . the UAW.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 08, 2009 4:55 am) Thats true to an extent. However, managed care is where rates are agreed to. I'm sure that GM/UAW and others use managed care? So an operation which is billed at $21,000 is paid at $7,000. I've seen this first hand as a benefits coordinator and dealing with the managed care folks. However, the anesthesiologist was paid the full amount and didn't move off his/her price. Who knows whats going on? Some indigents can also work out a payment plan which is less than half the original charge. As older folks go into nursing homes, some start transferring assets to their children/relatives. They have to do it 3 years prior to transfer assets, Bush was trying to make it 5 years. If not a lien can be put on their residences. There is some merit to the health spending account, whereby your spending your own money and or money that you don't spend will be yours to do with what you want in the end. Don't confuse this with a flexible spending account which must be spent in that year. Bottom line is that using the emergency room as a clinic is wasteful and are many other practices in this nations health care industry. |
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Jan 08, 2009 5:34 pm) I have never been through one or even seen one. I would guess it is a tool to discover certain ailments. And a way to cover the doctor's behind. hardly a day goes by that someone I know has had an MRI. I guess if you really need the test it would be nice to get it in a reasonable time. Many forms of the cancer and tumors are detected with an MRI. Those are ailments that need quick attention many times. Waiting 10 to 12 weeks could be the difference between life and death. I can just hear the UAW retiree scream when the doctor says I think you have cancer. I won't know until we get the results from your MRI. I think the waiting list in your area is 12 weeks. Then we can schedule a specialist to look at the results and that will be another 18 weeks. I hear people upset when they have to wait a week to get results from the lab. For those that really believe in government provided health care need to research Oregon and Hawaii's universal health care. Doug Farrago comments on the failure of universal children's coverage in Hawaii, where the program was discontinued after 7 months. It's a good example of what would happen if health care was "free": Families that had private coverage were dropping it so they could get the free care as well. I don't think this experiment should be ignored. It really needs to be examined to see what went wrong and how Americans think. As physicians, we all want people to have the appropriate healthcare but it can be abused and just giving it away will bankrupt us all. The people of Hawaii have spoken and they have said that even if they have the money to pay for their doctor's visit or medication, they still would rather get it for free. The UAW members need to be freed from their entitlement mentality. |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 08, 2009 3:22 pm) Anyone who thinks Honda/Toyota are great companies would have to agree with their "NO VALUE ADDED" mentality and oppose waste aka MUDA. Why aren't we running the health care system like all the business schools preach. Surely Toyota, the darling of the business schools for efficiently operated companies can be cited here, and as a prime examples of America being a special interest/lobby operated country and a far cry from economic rational. Treat the medical community ,AMA, as if it is sacred cow and the lowly UAW as a parasite on the society? Please bombard us with some logic and quit boot licking these folks for the simple reason that you think they are better/richer than yourself and therefore have your best interests in mind. Your going to have to be consistent if your reasoning/argument are to have any merit. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 08, 2009 5:45 pm) i was pointing out the most obvious reason why there are so many here in the states. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 08, 2009 5:45 pm) Again our friend mr Lumpy feels that GM and the UAW would be making money if we had free health care for every citizen. I think the UAW has built their members up to think they are worth more than they are. How is there any more skill involved in putting a tire and wheel on a new car vs doing the same procedure at the local Tire Rack? Yet the guy in the UAW protection program gets $30 per hour and the guy at the tire rack gets under $10 per hour. There is a HUGE disparity between pay for doing the same job across this great land. The UAW would rather bring GM to their knees in bankruptcy than to give a nickel from their senior members & retirees. They have no problem selling out the new guy. I say that is not a Union. That is a union divided, that will never survive.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 08, 2009 6:16 pm) I'm sure they are fair game for overuse.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 08, 2009 6:16 pm) That is what I have been saying all along... the UAW has forgotten why they were created and are now more like self-serving moneygrubbers who will destroy the USAs auto-industry. People are purchasing NON union-made cars *because* the UAW has forced the automakers to cheepen their products in order to pay for the outrageous UAW contracts. I fear that the UAW will discover too late what they have done and there may be no turning back at that point. If they were smart, the UAW would volintaraly move to help the automakers survive by offering up SIGNIFICANT changes in the contracts. Making all the pay-scales the same as NONunion autoworkers would be a great start. (...but a very small start compared to what NEEDS to happen) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 08, 2009 6:16 pm) i could look it up but i seem to recall that the average ceo in the 50-60's made something like 60 times the average pay of the employees of the company but that this ratio has now jumped to sometime like 350 times. don't hold me to those precise mumbers but you see my point. sorry i just don't hate or despise tthe idea of a factory rat making $28-29 an hour whether at toyota or GM. interesting you would prefer that the uaw sell out its retirees rather than new hires. however the retirees where not only uaw members for their working lives but also the recipients of a written contractual promise repeated restated over their working lives, that they would have health care during their retirement. understand also that most retirees may not have many options and may even have a hard time getting a decent job nowadays. the new hire has not been promised anything or paid any dues. indeed he or she has a choice on whether to take the $15 a hour job or not. somehow i have the feeling that if the uaw had agreed to cancel health insurance for its hundreds of thousands of big3 retirees in exchange for keeping new hires at $28 an hour with full benefits--you would be among the first to condemn the UAW for selling out its retirees. I think the UAW did all it could to protect its retirees by assuming the risk of managing the VEBAS and still give the big3 relief..if the vebas can't keep up with annual 15-20% health care costs then those trustees will have to do what the teamsters trustees did to you -- start eliminating health care coverage. for some strange reason you thought this was just peachy when it happened to you, but i suspect that most UAW retirees may be unhappy with the UAW if their health care is reduced or lost under the UAW VEBAS. the big 3 employers called the 2007 transformational. they will have these huge legacy costs off their books and a new workforce would be slowly added at half the wages and benefits. i would like to bet that 99% of you who were critical of the bridge loans and incorrectly blamed the uaw for the international credit crunch which triggered the problem, where not aware of the health care concessions negotiated in 2006 and the somewhat major changes in the 2007 master agreements But i forgive you. you approach the issue with the firm opinion that the uaw was the prime reason that the bridge loans were needed and despite claims of having an open mind--don't wish to have it cluttered with facts which are not consistent with that firm opinion. |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 08, 2009 7:40 pm) You keep saying that long enough and you will believe it is true. I was VERY upset when the Teamsters dropped health care for the retirees. I was even more upset that they changed the retirement age from 45 to 57. I was just about ready to retire and get out of the Arctic cold. When it was finally presented to the rank and file, it made sense to keep the retirement solvent rather than take a chance on depleting the fund. At the time we were shelling out more to the retirees than was coming in from the members and the investments. We also had a cash out clause and a couple large bargaining units closed up shop when the price of oil fell. Those guys all cashed out depleting the fund even more. That option was also done away with. Thankfully today the fund gains each year instead of losing ground. It should be able to keep paying us our pension for however long we are here. somehow i have the feeling that if the uaw had agreed to cancel health insurance for its hundreds of thousands of big3 retirees in exchange for keeping new hires at $28 an hour with full benefits--you would be among the first to condemn the UAW for selling out its retirees. I believe a Union should be for all members not just the elite few. I have no problem with a pay scale with increases over time. I see no reason to pay a line worker new or 30 years seniority $28+ per hour. The job in reality just does not warrant that kind of pay. If the person has a specialty that is different. Some one that slaps doors on all day long can be trained in a matter of weeks just does not deserve $28 per hour. Now if the company wants to give bonuses when they make a big profit. I think that is a wonderful idea. That is an incentive to make the cars better. Paying two people doing the same job at two different wage scales is asking for one to be disgruntled. If I am working along side some old dude making $15 per hour doing the same job I am why should I work as fast as he does? Again we are not talking about machinist, millwrights, electricians etc. We are talking simple tasks that you can train a person to do in a very short period of time. This new hire not only is paid half what the lazy old fart next to him gets. He has no pension, mediocre health care. I would be ashamed to say I was part of the UAW. And yes if the rank and file voted to throw the retirees under the bus I would scream about that. I am looking for equal concessions. That is what Unions are for to keep everyone on the same level. |
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