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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16701 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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With all of the troubles that the "big 3" are having, I dont see the UAW offering to suspend union-dues for a couple years to aid in doing their part to help the workers thru these tough times of transition..... now that I think of it, I dont see the unions doing much of ANYTHING to help the companies that pay their very existance make it thru these tough times. I am thinking that the unions do not yet understand the gavity of the situation they are facing.
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| I just read some of the comments on the UAW resort and it reminded me of when I worked for IBM in Endicott NY where they had their own golf course mostly paid by IBM, greens fees were minimal for employees and retirees. That is until IBM went down hill in the 80's and they sold the course to cut costs. Greens fees sky rocketed for everyone. The whole thing was just a huge perk that was too expensive when the company went through tough times. | |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 04, 2009 7:34 pm) another union basher surfaces. i 'll make one more attempt to let facts shed some light on you opinion--i know you've made up your mind, so i shouldn't bother. yes the golf course loses money--michigan economy and domestic auto industry has been going down the drain since NAFTA (clinton i know) and the great decider made another run at trickle down economics.(you can add that every other foreign auto mfgrg has national health insurance which gives them a cost advantage of about $2000 a car over us because the repukes are afraid of socialized medicine when 46 million uninsured americans just want medicine.) but i digress black lake is probably too good a course for this side of the state (the east or blue collar side so to speak) the lake michigan side is where the money is together with a the best collection of courses - which is what most heavy golfers want--a collection of great links. the public rate at black lake is $95 a round. as a UAW retiree I get a 30% discount. just the same i am not that good a golfer and i don't golf that often. for over 40 years, the center itself has been well used by rank and file members and their families. the uaw pays their costs, rooms and meals -- with interest from the uaw strike fund. when oh when will the union bashers get it thru their skull the key fact that none of the federal bridge loan money is going to the uaw. the uaw is not asking anyone for a loan or a bailout. the uaw members have approved this use of their dues money for this center, including its golf course. it may well be that the center is too expensive to run or the golf course is not used enough or its fees are too high. but since we (the UAW) are not asking you the taxpayer for a dime--what the hell business is it of yours!!!!. the union funds are not being used for something illegal or immoral. hell every household in america is currently spending $120 a month for the iraq war and that doesn't seem to upset you. again, it is our dues money and if we want to let our members AND their families go to a beautiful training/education center with a golf course--why is that something that bothers you? i really really would like to know . perhaps you would prefer that we use it to hire more uaw organizers or authorize more strikes. the center has a total book value of 33 million course was built in 1998-99 for $6 million, which is part of this BOOK VALUE. book value is what it cost you to acquire and improve a piece of property. buildings depreciate somewhat over 42 years of use. market value is somewhat related to taxable value in michigan. perhaps you just came out of deep coma and have not yet learned that property values have been tanking dramatically for several years, particularly golf courses and 2nd home or resort property thus thousands of property owners in michigan are challenging their tax assessments contending that the assessment are too high. why is the uaw ENTITLED to the same right of review that a corporate owner of the same type of property could secure. is any of this sinking in--do you see that problem here is really with your own bias rather than any reasonable concept of right and wrong.? |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 8:21 pm) Gettlefinger was before Congress side by side with Mulally, Wagoner and Nardelli. They were all asking for the auto bailout. That got the taxpayer's attention.
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Replying to: bpeebles (Jan 04, 2009 7:41 pm) another union basher who does not know the facts but has a firm opinion: did you know that the uaw re-opened its big three agreements in 2006 to give the auto companies relief on retiree health care costs. did you know that the current 2007 big 3 agreements provides for new hires at about $!5 an hour with greatly reduced health care, and 401(K) savigns plans instead of pensions. did you know that the UAW agreed to set up VEBA's (independent trust funds) to totally shift the so-called legacy costs from the employers (billions in retiree health care costs that were contractually promised by these companies). did you know that the again UAW agreed to re-open these contracts right now to address more reductions (job banks, etc.) well know you do know a little bit of the story and your apology is accepted!
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 8:39 pm) There's no need to make it personal or call people names. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 04, 2009 8:23 pm) Ron Gettlefinger was there to support the Big Three's request for bridge loans to be provided to the BIG 3 so that these companies could stay open until the worldwide credit crunch eases up. jobs and lives were on the line and he did a hellava job and he flew commercial. i'll let you in on another little fact. gettlefinger is asked to be a luncheon speak at the center about twice a month. the center is 300 miles from soldiarity house. he gets up early drives to the center has lunch buffet style in the "lavish resort" with the other rank and file members and then gets in his still warm car and drives the five hours back by himself to detroit. yeh just another union fat cat to most who have opinions but actually know very little in any event, the taxpayers have the absolute right to ask both the big three employers and the uaw what they are going to do to restructure the domestic auto industry. they also have the right to ask the debtors (the big 3 not the uaw) how the debt is going to be repaid. but the taxpayer has no right to ask the uaw to stop spending UAW dues money on its own members. I say again ( as i think you all know rather well) at no time has the uaw asked you or the taxpayers generally for a dime or a loan for continuing uaw operations or maintaining the uaw center at black lake.. You may not want to accept or believe it but the UAW is a seperate entity from Ford Chrysler and GM. I remember sitting in on a deposition of a chrysler vp tom minor some years ago. the lawyer asked something like "when or why did you give this particular benefit to the UAW' he exploded "listen sonny we never GAVE the uaw a dam thing" sometimes they negotiated hard and traded for some stuff we wanted, other times they put our feet to the fire and said your making millions in profits and we want you to share more of it with your employees--but we never GAVE the UAW anything!!" |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 04, 2009 8:52 pm) but when i see things like 'let them die the slow agonizing death they have chosen. just don't ask me to subsidize it" i tend to take it very personally. what is there about some people that despise the idea of factory workers making a good living while ignoring things like tax cuts favoring the rich and powerful? i worked with the uaw and these people all of my adult life. they are the real american hereos as far as i'm concerned. I still remember my first week in the labor pool at the GM Fleetwood plant. an old timer came to me and said "sonny the pay and the benefits are great but go back to school before you get sucked in. factory work is mind numbing and boring--get out before you get stuck" I did thank god!. |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 9:14 pm) This may be one to watch: "SEOUL, South Korea — Unionized workers at Ssangyong Motor began voting Monday on whether to strike if management demands massive job cuts as part of a restructuring of the ailing South Korean automaker." Ssangyong Motor workers vote on strike (Idaho Statesman) |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 04, 2009 9:45 am) Well the bailouts are taxpayer money since no bank will loan the auto companies the money, isn't that correct? And Gettlefinger was at the table with the CEOs asking for the money. This is taxpayer money, yours and mine, being loaned to a very risky set of borrowers. What is "running the international"?
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