Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16663 messages, Last post on Nov 08, 2009 at 9:32 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
|
|---|---|
|
Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 2:24 pm) I do put the picking out of this one aspect on the same low level as the Congress people, enjoying all kinds of benefits from lobbyists and patronage of all sorts, criticizing the management of the B3 flying into DC on jets, private or loaned or leased. It's a trivial by media-attractive item. But I still think the UAW should shed the golf course. I'll iterate my belief that foreign car makers who have come in once again to take over an industry should help pay the freight for the legacy costs of the union workers for that industry. I see the parallels to VCR production, TV production, etc., after the foreign (Japanese) saw how to make them, made them cheaper, dumped them here in some cases, and eliminated the US industry because of the US's higher cost in most cases. The same logic applies to the auto industry and whether or not you feel the UAW is the major problem there or is ancillary, the undercutting effect is the same. It's my thinking that some of, some of the UAW retirees in this area with 2 new GM cars in the garage in the home here in Ohio and who knows what in the garage in their home in Florida and in some cases their summer home in Upper Michigan need to pay more of the freight on their retirement and healthcare as do most other people. The Good Times are over. |
|
|
OK somebody said that Japan doesn't put tariffs on American cars ,they just don't want that crap over there . . . well how come they will not let GM or Ford BUILD cars there ? Yet we let them build cars here and some of us buy this stuff ,not caring. China lets GM build cars there ,and the number one selling car in China is the BUICK. Ford builds cars in South America and Ford does very well there ? On the CFL bulbs ,somebody said the UAW doesn't make bulbs ,true ,but this is ALL connected . . . many here are very critical of the UAW yet jobs continue to disappear in many other U.S. industries including many non-union industries in our country. There might be an environmental reason you say CFL's are not made here in the U.S. but anothor REAL reason is BIG BUSINESS like GE doesn't want to make them here . . . it'll hurt their bottom line if they have to pay a person more then a person in China. GE doesn't even want to make them in Brazil where they closed a plant ! What some of us in the U.S. are doing is killing the U.S. middle class no matter how you cut it. But if you must go buy those CFL bulbs and cars made overseas ,like I said before as long as your job isn't affected.
|
|
|
Replying to: steve_ (Jan 04, 2009 2:33 pm) it's really not that lavish. the setting is great- woods, ponds, water. the buildings are beautiful with soaring roof lines, mostly wood in the interior, with huge windows. the actual rooms are rather spartan. some even have shared bathrooms. food is good, but it is served buffet style. the public restaurant at the public golf club is good but the entree range from $15-25. again i don't call that lavish. location location. where are most active and retired auto workers located midwest with michigan the winner. still perhaps indiana or illinois would have been good choices. understand when the site was bought, uaw active membership was about 1.6 million. now its about 400,000. i wasn't for the golf course at the Center. but if one was going to be added it could have been done cheaper. again this was 1998. course cost 6-7 million and has lost money every year. distress sale now would probably get half that back. Center itself probably will stay in uaw hands to the bitter end- reuther's ashes (Walter and Victor) are scattered there. hard to recover now. uaw delegates at uaw convention have always approve center improvements and financing from interest on strike fund.
|
|
|
Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 6:30 pm) More reason to think about cutting back eh? That perception thing again. I'm sure the beancounters at GM could justify leasing a fleet of jets but when Joe Public is involved in trying to save an industry, the beneficiaries better be going the extra mile themselves. I think that includes the UAW. |
|
|
local republican "drain commissioner" sent out press release blasting uaw for challenging its tax asessment: here is the response i sent out to various sites that quoted him: Cheboygan County’s newly elected drain commissioner, Dennis Lennox, recently issued the first (of an anticipated many) press releases entitled “UAW refuses to pay taxes on lavish lakeside resort“. Lennox campaigned for the drain commissioner job with lawn signs falsely implying that he was the incumbent- a violation of state law. His platform was based on a stated desire for low taxes and getting the state legislature to abolish what he calls the “do nothing” drain commissioner job which pays $600 a year. For almost 40 years, the UAW has run the Walter and May Reuther Family Education Center for UAW members on the south side of Black Lake in Waverly Township near Onaway. The Center has a first-rate public golf course with a great restaurant and almost 250 rooms for UAW members and their families to attend weeklong training programs. The UAW Center operations have been almost self-contained. The Center has its own fire department, security, road maintenance, water and waste treatment, etc and no school-age children live at the Center. Property assessment are made by each township on an annual basis and are subject to taxpayer challenge at a local board of review and then before a state tax tribunal. For some years, the UAW has been able to successfully challenge the Waverly Township assessment at the state tax tribunal level. In 2007, the UAW again challenged the township assessment of $13.7 million and the parties settled that matter that same year at $12.3.million. Lennox says he is astonished that the UAW would argue that the current market value of its property is more than 50% less than its book value. Apparently he has not noticed that property values generally and golf courses in particular have been rapidly declining. The Lennox release also falsely suggests that I represented the UAW in this matter and refused to make any effort to resolve it. However, I have not represented the UAW in any of these assessment disputes. When the 2007 assessment challenge was brought to my attention, I arranged for a lunch meeting at the Center with the township board, the UAW Center Director, its tax attorney and a high level administrator from UAW Solidarity House in Detroit. The Waverly Township Board declined this offer. (Neither county commissioners nor for that matter, drain commissioners, are involved in property tax assessment process.) Since this matter had been resolved by the parties, why does the new drain commissioner regurgitate it now almost two years later? Every taxpayer has a right to appeal a tax assessment. The only issue in any assessment dispute is the appraised value of the property in contrast to other comparable properties. There is no discussion of this issue or of past tax tribunal decisions in the Lennox release. You would think a self-proclaimed advocate for low taxes would support any taxpayer’s right to appeal any assessment. The Lennox argument-- that merely appealing a tax assessment amounts to a refusal to pay a fair tax rate is just politically-driven balderdash. Indeed given the fact that the UAW has obtained relief every time it has appealed suggests the question of what is a fair tax assessment favors the UAW. The right wing media is going bananas over the idea that a union can operate a “lavish resort with premier golf” for its members because of the recent $17 billion auto industry loans. But the union-bashing has an obvious logical flaw -- none of this taxpayer money goes to the UAW. The UAW Center has been good for the community for over 40 years, and its continued UAW ownership should be encouraged. Rumors have circulated for years that the Center, or at least the golf course, are for sale. I hope the UAW realizes that most do not share Mr. Lennox’s views and the UAW hangs on to the property. The UAW has maintained a beautiful, low impact resort operation which strives to preserve the property’s natural environment. The Center’s 145 employees are locals earning a decent living and enjoying the benefits of union representation. Even though the Center is a seasonal employer, the UAW does NOT exercise its right to challenge unemployment benefits when it shuts down over the winter. The UAW Center attracts almost 10,000 well-behaved UAW members and their families annually, who spend their money in the local area. (Some even come back to vacation and retire here!) The facility has also been made available for many public meetings and the UAW has been a generous supporter of community events and programs. In contrast with some resorts, the UAW does not use foreign workers on temporary work visas. Nor has the UAW asked either the township or county for any subsidy, despite the fact that the Center operations have apparently been a steady drain on the UAW’s declining resources--reportedly requiring a $23 million UAW subsidy over the last 5 years. The sad irony in all this is that a forced sale now of any of the Center property is almost guaranteed to establish a much lower taxable value with greatly reduced property tax payments. A new owner might also not wish to hire a local workforce at union rates and benefits. How does this help the community? Perhaps the new township board may wish to pursue a better relationship with the current property owner and one of the county’s largest and best paying employers. If so, I will try to set up another meeting. Regardless, Lennox’s attack on the UAW is stale, devoid of relevant facts, hypocritical, unprincipled, and totally unrelated to his “extensive” duties as drain commissioner.
|
|
|
Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 7:06 pm) PS Wanting to tax the Center on $13 million when the UAW is claiming it is worth $27 million seems a bargain to me. It is just more of the UAW entitlement mentality. |
|
|
With all of the troubles that the "big 3" are having, I dont see the UAW offering to suspend union-dues for a couple years to aid in doing their part to help the workers thru these tough times of transition..... now that I think of it, I dont see the unions doing much of ANYTHING to help the companies that pay their very existance make it thru these tough times. I am thinking that the unions do not yet understand the gavity of the situation they are facing.
|
|
| I just read some of the comments on the UAW resort and it reminded me of when I worked for IBM in Endicott NY where they had their own golf course mostly paid by IBM, greens fees were minimal for employees and retirees. That is until IBM went down hill in the 80's and they sold the course to cut costs. Greens fees sky rocketed for everyone. The whole thing was just a huge perk that was too expensive when the company went through tough times. | |
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 04, 2009 7:34 pm) another union basher surfaces. i 'll make one more attempt to let facts shed some light on you opinion--i know you've made up your mind, so i shouldn't bother. yes the golf course loses money--michigan economy and domestic auto industry has been going down the drain since NAFTA (clinton i know) and the great decider made another run at trickle down economics.(you can add that every other foreign auto mfgrg has national health insurance which gives them a cost advantage of about $2000 a car over us because the repukes are afraid of socialized medicine when 46 million uninsured americans just want medicine.) but i digress black lake is probably too good a course for this side of the state (the east or blue collar side so to speak) the lake michigan side is where the money is together with a the best collection of courses - which is what most heavy golfers want--a collection of great links. the public rate at black lake is $95 a round. as a UAW retiree I get a 30% discount. just the same i am not that good a golfer and i don't golf that often. for over 40 years, the center itself has been well used by rank and file members and their families. the uaw pays their costs, rooms and meals -- with interest from the uaw strike fund. when oh when will the union bashers get it thru their skull the key fact that none of the federal bridge loan money is going to the uaw. the uaw is not asking anyone for a loan or a bailout. the uaw members have approved this use of their dues money for this center, including its golf course. it may well be that the center is too expensive to run or the golf course is not used enough or its fees are too high. but since we (the UAW) are not asking you the taxpayer for a dime--what the hell business is it of yours!!!!. the union funds are not being used for something illegal or immoral. hell every household in america is currently spending $120 a month for the iraq war and that doesn't seem to upset you. again, it is our dues money and if we want to let our members AND their families go to a beautiful training/education center with a golf course--why is that something that bothers you? i really really would like to know . perhaps you would prefer that we use it to hire more uaw organizers or authorize more strikes. the center has a total book value of 33 million course was built in 1998-99 for $6 million, which is part of this BOOK VALUE. book value is what it cost you to acquire and improve a piece of property. buildings depreciate somewhat over 42 years of use. market value is somewhat related to taxable value in michigan. perhaps you just came out of deep coma and have not yet learned that property values have been tanking dramatically for several years, particularly golf courses and 2nd home or resort property thus thousands of property owners in michigan are challenging their tax assessments contending that the assessment are too high. why is the uaw ENTITLED to the same right of review that a corporate owner of the same type of property could secure. is any of this sinking in--do you see that problem here is really with your own bias rather than any reasonable concept of right and wrong.? |
|
|
Replying to: lumoy (Jan 04, 2009 8:21 pm) Gettlefinger was before Congress side by side with Mulally, Wagoner and Nardelli. They were all asking for the auto bailout. That got the taxpayer's attention.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
