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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 7:27 pm) Certainly if GM could have made some (probably sensible) business changes in 1998 then they would be much more viable today. As you indicate the union may have had the power to kill the company with this strike. So would you agree that it is primarily the union's choices that put GM in the condition that it finds itself today? - a company with no reserve to weather a significant economic downturn? |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 7:27 pm) I guess I do not understand what was costing them money. They could have laid everyone off. Or they could have gone to the white collars and said you over there start putting on lug nuts. They could have hired people wanting to work. Or just spent the money they were supposedly losing on moving plants out of the country. Wagoner is a loser. He has no business heading up a major corporation. At the time the UAW went on strike GM was not making a killing on SUVs like they should have been. They have not made 5% since Wagoner the wimp took over. Instead of pissing the money away over the last 15 years they should have been shutting every plant that was not making money down and moving South. Either to Mexico or a right to work state. I have NO sympathy for GM what so ever. I feel for individuals that will be hurt by their shutting down. I feel worse for the people that have lost their jobs due to GM being a LOSER company. It is not the guy working at the dealership in LA that is to blame for GM building crap vehicles. Yet he gets all the blame and is first to lose his job. Meanwhile the GM execs and UAW fat cats are drinking cognac and smoking Cuban Cigars. The real losers are the American tax payer that is subsidizing that bunch of worthless bums in Michigan. The Corporate and Union greed in the Big 3 are too blame for their own demise. We the tax payers should not give them a nickel.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2009 8:35 pm) it is not some kind of dispassionate game.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 6:00 pm) I see the defined pension as a thing of the past. Companies don't like it because they are at the mercy of the stock market. When the economy is hurting companies are all of the sudden under funded and more than likely that company is also hurting (with few exceptions like consumer staples). Thus they have problems planning their budget/forecasting. Most have and or doing away with the defined pension and matching more 401K. In this respect they have the fixed cost of those who opt in to the 401K and can plan/forecast. The health spending account may come into being also. Co pays and other measures haven't curbed the excessive use of medical services, So person may thing twice if that money is coming from their own pocket. If you build up a health spending account with both opt in funding and employer contribution over years. Your more likely to be frugal in its spending if in the end those funds are yours to do with as you please. These are the routes which many corporations look to implement. This way they contain cost and know more or less their yearly expense as oppose to the stock market cycle. I feel that its well worth discussing these concepts for the UAW as well. Yeah, the GM plans made prudent decisions, but that too may be short lived. Many so called professional money managers, well over 50%, under-perform. Then too many are locked into certain industries and or hampered. One can only guess how Fidelity Select Transportation is doing. I suspect they are sub par at the moment. |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 03, 2009 5:32 pm) Pretty country up there. I should also mention that the Family Education Center has a positive impact on that local economy and provides jobs. When folks leave there they take knowledge back to their locals and have an impact on the country as a whole. If you like the scenic route, I would suggest driving next to the northern Lake Michigan. The UP is awesome too. Iron Mountain seemed like a nice little town and a great place to raise a family. I flown into Detroit and spent the night at the airport Double Tree, then too a half day bus drive in. Then too I've drove my Janesville Tahoe, made a trip out of it. My youngest wasn't too keen about the drive. But when he got there, he lit up the basketball court and provide entertainment in the evenings. Many of my UAW brothers and sisters said " they would look for him in the NBA". They invited us to stay another week. Unfortunately, we had only planned one week. Thanks for your input my union/UAW brother |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 7:30 pm) Unfortunate that your 401K has taken a hit. Hope time is on your side and you will recover. If your early retiring you may also have a ERISA payment to hold you over until social security kicks in, usually 62 plus age creep. In most cases a jointly (not an individual) needs $400,000 in 401K/IRA. If you early retire, the IRS allows the equal monthly withdraws using their spreadsheet. Then you can avoid the 10% penalty. At 400,000 this comes to $2,300 a month, then add ERISA a non earned income until 62ish, and pension another unearned income. The great thing is that your 401K money will be taxed at a lower rate. You want to have no more than $32,000 max ($25,000 individual) coming out your 401K/IRA and thereby your social security won't be taxed. If you go over 50% of your social security begins to be taxed and withdrawing more can bring this to 85% of your social security being taxed. The triple dip is when you get to 65 and start drawing SS, a pay check if your working, and then at 70 you get the pension to boot. A little known fact is that you can repay the SS benefits and draw am enhanced higher amount at 70ish. I say go early and be prepared. Don't withdraw it if you wish to change bank/brokerage. Do a trustee to trustee, all the financial institutions have the paper/form to fill out free of charge. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 03, 2009 5:46 pm) I'm rank and file, held two different offices years ago." DD you are extremely knowledgeable for a "Worker Bee". What do you do for a living? Are you on the assembly line? What does your job entail? Thanks, Kip |
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Jan 03, 2009 8:53 pm) In 1968 Pacific Telephone CWA members went on strike for two weeks. I went back to construction for those two weeks. I could not afford to be out of work. We got a nickel an hour raise. I went after work and carried a picket sign along with my fellow employees. I quit 2 years later after 9 years and NO retirement to show for those years as a Union worker. RCA hired and moved me to Alaska to get the Long Distance up and working in 1970. We soon became Teamsters. I was very involved including being elected to the E board by my fellow employees. I was in on several contracts with RCA and later AT&T. When I went to work for a small company in the Arctic I was one of the organizers to take that small group into the Teamsters. I was in on every contract for the last 25 years I worked there. I know when to push a company and when not to. The UAW mentality has not been good for the Domestic auto industry or the country. As a retired Union member I feel more for those that are retired and somewhat helpless in their position. They did have the right and opportunity to get involved when the UAW and GM were negotiating unsustainable contracts over the years. Promising benefits that are funded by future work forces is not right. The UAW and the Big 3 did just that. So now about 70,000 workers are carrying the burden of half a million retirees health care. Ask yourself, why did Ford just build a state of the art manufacturing facility in Brazil when they would rather have built it in the USA? Simple answer UAW work rules.
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DD: If you build up a health spending account with both opt in funding and employer contribution over years. Your more likely to be frugal in its spending if in the end those funds are yours to do with as you please. I see that as an excellent way to handle health care. What messed up our health care plan was abuse by employees. During the 1970s pipeline boom in Alaska the Teamsters were very powerful. We built a state of the art hospital and dental clinic. All 100% coverage. Our work rules were such that you needed a Dr's excuse if you took off more than a couple days sick leave. So the employee would go see a Dr for a runny nose to get an excuse. In AK a cold was a regular yearly ailment. With a 1000 plus telephone operators we were keeping the Drs busy. When the construction of the pipeline was finished and 1000s of dues paying workers moved back to TX and Louisiana Anchorage went into withdrawals. The mid 1980s were bleak and many Union contract wages were cut drastically to survive. The Teamsters could not maintain the hospital as it was draining our pension and strike funds. So we sold and went to a co-pay plan. Most did not like it but reality, is what it is. For those that think the Government will offer better health care than your HMO need to do more research. Just two tidbits on Canadian health care. It takes two years for a hip replacement in Canada. That means pain and suffering on the job for those two years or starve. There are more MRI machines in the City of Philadelphia, than the whole country of Canada. Plus a 10 month wait for a maternity room.  DD: I see the defined pension as a thing of the past. Companies don't like it because they are at the mercy of the stock market. I agree there also. You can thank the Government regulations for protecting the Pension funds from fraudulent investing by the fiduciaries. The same regulations made the pensions too high of a risk to accept. How often does the Pension Trust Board re-evaluate the fund at GM? Our Pension trust board bases any increase on the health of the fund. COLA is unsustainable if the Trust loses money through no fault of the fiduciaries. Only the government that prints the money can offer a raise when there is no more money to give. In the last two years my pension has only increased by $6 per month. My SS went up $129 this month. More than the the notice I got from them. Maybe Uncle Sam had some left over from the $700 billion giveaway.  My advice to anyone is stay on the job as long as you can. While DD's $400,000 seems like a lot in a 401k. I would not want to try and get by on $2300 per month. http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/publications/fiduciaryresponsibility.html
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 04, 2009 6:44 am) $2300 is in addition to pension and ERISA. Which would total $2,300 + $700+ $1500 = $4,500 as an example for an early retiree. The $700 would go away at 62 plus age creep and SS would replace it, and you would be at or about $5,000 monthly. This is a typical example of how to pay the least amount of taxes and a smart man would start shifting their 401K/IRA funds into better investments. Just because your getting $4,500 or $5,000 a month doesn't mean you have to spend and or consume it all. This is where the human factor comes in and discipline is virtue. The UAW and society in general needs to educate folks about the responsible thing to do with their income/investment funding. Its so simple, that I just don't see how folks get into dired straits when it comes to money. I've also designed/developed a wealth builder plan. One for the masses which would pay into future generations. Instead of the annuity, a perpetuity which given two or three generation would free many from the toil of working for others to pursue more worthwhile meaningfully endeavors. |
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