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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 03, 2009 5:32 pm) Do you take advantage of your golf course as a retiree? I think the whole thing came to light when it was revealed that the center had lost $23 million over the last 5 years. While cost for training is part of doing business or it should be. I wonder if it is the golf course that is draining the UAW. From the play records it is obvious that more non UAW members use the course than do members by more than two to one. My main reason in questioning Union expenditures comes from my own Union experience. I watched as Union built a big fancy hospital for the members. Then A large dental clinic and a big office complex. After that a world class recreation center. All those assets were financed with our pension fund. This was all prior to tougher regulations by the Feds. None of the projects made money or any real sense. They were monuments to the Secretary Treasurer Jesse Carr. Now they are all sold and off of our books. Good riddance as they were all a drag with little value to the membership as a whole. Here is what another Teamster recalls from that era: I was a member of the Teamsters, Local 959, and worked as a Teamster during the TAPS project. Anyone who worked as a union member in the Teamsters was fortunate to have Carr serving as secretary-treasurer because he provided incredible benefits to union members like free dental, free vision, free membership at the Alaska Club, free legal services, etc. Why isn't anything named after the great legend, Jesse L. Carr? It's surprising to find no books written documenting the power unions wielded over oilies during the '70s when the Trans-Alaska Pipeline was under construction. Secretary-Treasurer of the Teamsters Local 959, Jesse L. Carr was the most powerful man in Alaska, in the 1970's. Jesse Carr did as much for Alaska labor as Walter Reuther did for the UAW. They are both gone and their legacy has little meaning in the 21st century. The question for every UAW member to think about is will the UAW survive another 10-20 years? With the current caliber of leadership in the UAW it is doubtful. I keep up on our Teamster pension fund as it is my retirement. I don't want any funny business being invested in. No investments made over a round of golf by some guy named Madoff. Trust but verify is the advice I give to anyone expecting or receiving a pension. We are near the last as the whole pension process got corrupted by too much government and unscrupulous Corporate managers & Union leaders. |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 6:00 pm) I agree with that. I also think they should have dumped the pension system when they had the chance during the 1998 strike. The way I see it is this. GM is currently responsible for a large pension plan. Say it is worth currently $90 billion. The government PBGC says it has to be kept in a certain level of funding or the corporation has to add money to keep it funded. Well is that fair? The company in good faith put money in the pension fund for each employee over the period of years they worked. Now the economy tanks and the banks default on billions of dollars they are holding or should have been holding that were in a pension fund. Now all of a sudden GM or whatever corporation is involved has to put enough money back into that fund to keep it funded at a given level. It seems the corporation takes all the risks and the retiree takes none. With a 401K it is the employee that oversees the fund. They can put it in high risk mutual funds or low interest safe savings. A 401K also passes all that is left following the death of the employee to his heirs. Something many pension plans do not do. If I die tomorrow my wife gets nothing more from my Teamster Pension. Due to the pension cap imposed by the Federal Government we also opted for a 401K and took some of our wage and invested as a supplement. It is good to have more than one income source with the crooks in government & business today. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2009 7:08 pm) I also think they should have dumped the pension system when they had the chance during the 1998 strike. Please recall my comments earlier about the cost of the 2 month strike vs the cost to the union/workers. They shut down the company and could have continued to for many more months. To allow the strike to continue for months would have put GM out of business. GM did not really have a chance to make any of the changes that they would have liked to.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2009 7:08 pm) So today I have the best of both worlds in my opinion. We have a defined benefit plan when we retire AND we have 401's(which I have been putting into since '85 or so). So today I still have a pension coming yet my 401 is crashed. Hopefully by the time I can start getting my pension and use my 401/IRA's they will both be full of money.
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Jan 03, 2009 5:50 pm) kind of like the B3 ceo's and airplane travel. Exactly! The CEOs flew to Washington on personal jets to beg for our taxpayer money. The union talked up a good line about the poor workers and begged for the same money, while they own a multi-$$million golf course and "training center". No offer of sacrifice, mortgage, or anything else was offered by the union to get the funds. The union would not even agree to have compensation reach parity with competitors until the current contract runs out in future years. They're all living their continuing lifestyle while you, I, and the rest of the American people try to pay our bills on time and live within our means. But our pockets are being picked by the unions and executives who could not run a company like a business that actually had to be competitive and make money.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 7:27 pm) Certainly if GM could have made some (probably sensible) business changes in 1998 then they would be much more viable today. As you indicate the union may have had the power to kill the company with this strike. So would you agree that it is primarily the union's choices that put GM in the condition that it finds itself today? - a company with no reserve to weather a significant economic downturn? |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 7:27 pm) I guess I do not understand what was costing them money. They could have laid everyone off. Or they could have gone to the white collars and said you over there start putting on lug nuts. They could have hired people wanting to work. Or just spent the money they were supposedly losing on moving plants out of the country. Wagoner is a loser. He has no business heading up a major corporation. At the time the UAW went on strike GM was not making a killing on SUVs like they should have been. They have not made 5% since Wagoner the wimp took over. Instead of pissing the money away over the last 15 years they should have been shutting every plant that was not making money down and moving South. Either to Mexico or a right to work state. I have NO sympathy for GM what so ever. I feel for individuals that will be hurt by their shutting down. I feel worse for the people that have lost their jobs due to GM being a LOSER company. It is not the guy working at the dealership in LA that is to blame for GM building crap vehicles. Yet he gets all the blame and is first to lose his job. Meanwhile the GM execs and UAW fat cats are drinking cognac and smoking Cuban Cigars. The real losers are the American tax payer that is subsidizing that bunch of worthless bums in Michigan. The Corporate and Union greed in the Big 3 are too blame for their own demise. We the tax payers should not give them a nickel.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2009 8:35 pm) it is not some kind of dispassionate game.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 03, 2009 6:00 pm) I see the defined pension as a thing of the past. Companies don't like it because they are at the mercy of the stock market. When the economy is hurting companies are all of the sudden under funded and more than likely that company is also hurting (with few exceptions like consumer staples). Thus they have problems planning their budget/forecasting. Most have and or doing away with the defined pension and matching more 401K. In this respect they have the fixed cost of those who opt in to the 401K and can plan/forecast. The health spending account may come into being also. Co pays and other measures haven't curbed the excessive use of medical services, So person may thing twice if that money is coming from their own pocket. If you build up a health spending account with both opt in funding and employer contribution over years. Your more likely to be frugal in its spending if in the end those funds are yours to do with as you please. These are the routes which many corporations look to implement. This way they contain cost and know more or less their yearly expense as oppose to the stock market cycle. I feel that its well worth discussing these concepts for the UAW as well. Yeah, the GM plans made prudent decisions, but that too may be short lived. Many so called professional money managers, well over 50%, under-perform. Then too many are locked into certain industries and or hampered. One can only guess how Fidelity Select Transportation is doing. I suspect they are sub par at the moment. |
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Replying to: lumoy (Jan 03, 2009 5:32 pm) Pretty country up there. I should also mention that the Family Education Center has a positive impact on that local economy and provides jobs. When folks leave there they take knowledge back to their locals and have an impact on the country as a whole. If you like the scenic route, I would suggest driving next to the northern Lake Michigan. The UP is awesome too. Iron Mountain seemed like a nice little town and a great place to raise a family. I flown into Detroit and spent the night at the airport Double Tree, then too a half day bus drive in. Then too I've drove my Janesville Tahoe, made a trip out of it. My youngest wasn't too keen about the drive. But when he got there, he lit up the basketball court and provide entertainment in the evenings. Many of my UAW brothers and sisters said " they would look for him in the NBA". They invited us to stay another week. Unfortunately, we had only planned one week. Thanks for your input my union/UAW brother |
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