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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16701 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 01, 2009 11:05 pm) Sounds like just what GM needs. It can't manage it's debt and is insolvent. It needs to be reorganized and shed debt if it ever wants to become profitable. If it can't ever become profitable then it should fold. If GM fails completely then that is the risk the shareholders have taken.
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 01, 2009 9:06 pm) The only whining I see is from the people here. GM has said they have worked out an equitable solution with the UAW. They have two tiered wages and in 5 years there will be virtually no higher wage UAW employees left. Pension is funded. Health care is going to be taken care of by VEBA. Issue is that TODAY's economic conditions, not 5 years from now, that GM needs these cost to be taken care of. Hopefully the loans/government requirements will force the UAW to accept these future conditions today.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 01, 2009 9:39 am) Our family felt the pain of loosing 40+% of our 401K savings when the dot.com bubble burst under the Clinton administration. Loans were made to many of those companies with no real assets and no real profits. Actually that bubble was pretty much created and reached it's zenith under Clinton's reign. Start to finish ! ! ! A lot of people lost all their savings. Then came the grand finale years of the housing "Bubble". We didn't buy into that one. We were aware of the shoddy loans that were being made and felt fairly certain that eventually there would be multitudes of foreclosures hitting the market and the bubble would burst. It did. However it was not created under the Bush reign. It had it's start under Carter and was nurtured for many years. Give loans to people that simply can not pay them back. Stop discriminating against the poor. So if we are to blame Bush, we need to be fair. Blame Clinton and all the other involved presidential administrations also. Plenty of blame to go around. >"The GOP has acted like a drunken sailor on shore leave is what history bears out. This let the free markets decide deregulation, borne of the Reagan era is what we have just seen before our eyes." Reagan was busy straightening out Carters mess. As you might remember, under Carter, interest rates to buy a house were 18%. To buy a car was 21% and Bank CD's were paying 15%. Unemployment was in the double digits. If there was a problem with Reagan's policy, why didn't Clinton fix that during his 8 years in office ? I don't believe for one minute that any bank wanted to loan money that had a high chance of not being repaid. But they were pushed and prodded to do so. >"Could they perhaps be wrong about the UAW? I believe in personal responsibility and someone needs to fess up. " Somehow UAW and personal responsibility just don't seem to go together. Where was the "Personal Responsibility" when they continuously strike a failing company. Why didn't each person realize the welfare of the goose might be a lot more important than increasing the size of the egg from that dyeing goose. Where is the "Personal Responsibility" with UAW workers? Because we do listen to talk radio and watch Fox, CNN, CNBC, C-Span, and follow up on links supplied in the internet, it dawned on us that we had been letting that 401K be managed by people that had their own interest at heart. Much like the UAW workers have done for so long. We took charge of our own affairs and manipulated the 401k to new heights even though we could no longer contribute to it, due to retirement in '96. Kip |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 01, 2009 9:39 am) What a misguided view of reality. In 1998 my wife's 401k had a value of $348,000. In early 2000 when others at her work started complaining of losses she decided to check her 401k. Paine Webber had swindled her out of all but $106,000. That was a 70% loss during the CLINTON administration. The people advising the 401k plan at her work transferred all of the employees to a local Financial advisor. Without adding any to the $106k he has brought her back to a current $248k. That is after the current losses. How have you done over the last 7 years financially? I know the number one and two people in the previous administration have gotten extremely wealthy during the Bush administration. Bill and Hill have made $121 million and Al Gore $100 million. For all the complaining about Bush they have done better than they will do under the next one. Enough of that. What would you do with the current mess at GM? Given the likelihood that there will be a long road back to profit if ever. Would you expect the UAW to implement the future changes now? Or just keep throwing your children's future at a losing enterprise?
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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090102/visteon_cuts.html?.v=3 Visteon cuts workers pay by 20%. They also state they reduce hours to 4 days a week. I wonder if those are the same; the report is not clear because the writer is not clear. Obvious Visteon workers don't have the UAW working for them if they are taking a reduction. If both factors are applied as described above the workers' take gross would be 64% of what they were making. Hard to live on that for many people.
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Replying to: kipk (Jan 02, 2009 5:42 am) VERY GOOD perspective on reality. Wagoner and the UAWs' stupidity is the reason GM is in the toilet. Wagoner has had several chances to rectify the situation since 1998. As recently as this summer he could have chained the gates when the UAW walked out and moved the operation South of the Border down Mexico way. He should have filed C11 and gave notice that ALL contracts with the UAW and the dealers were null and void. He has money making operations in other countries. He could build on that and see how interested the UAW was in keeping jobs in the USA. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 02, 2009 6:08 am) Is Visteon running under C11 the same as Delphi? That would mean the court could decide on any reduction in wages. Looks like they had a lot more people in 2004. This was from a 2004 article: Vehicle parts maker Visteon Corp. said May 6 it signed a seven-year agreement with the United Auto Workers that allows lower wages and benefits for new employees. Visteon has about 19,500 UAW-represented employees. |
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Happy New Year to the UAW’s prosperous officers Ron Gettelfinger, General Holiefield, Bob King, Cal Rapson and James Settles …from over 500,000 betrayed UAW retirees. These union officials call themselves negotiators. In the few short months of Gettelinger’s depressing tenure how much negotiating skill did it take for them to say yes when they should have said no as they gave back 70 years of hard won worker gains that are now lost forever? At Solidarity House these union officials promote the Reuther brothers who set the standard for working class Middle America. For a factual look at what the Reuthers actually thought of their bogus brand of unionism consider the second link below. It is the words of Victor Reuther talking about the new age concessionary UAW leadership at the huge 50th anniversary Rally of the UAW in Flint in 1987. I moderated this large historic event and it was sponsored by dozens of top UAW local leaders from across our nation. Today defenseless UAW retirees are being treated as America’s irrelevant underclass. They have been sold-out by government politicians, corporate leaders and especially these top union officials. As many of these elderly retirees suffer from cancer and other serious work related health issues related to auto production their “life and death health care benefits” have been labeled as sacrificial legacy costs. They have become negotiable political pawns. Retirees legally owned their health care benefits until these union officials went to court to attain the ability to negotiate them away. These negotiated benefits were paid for over a working lifetime of worker earnings deferrals and hourly contributions. Union officials refused to vest these negotiated monies and frittered them away into profoundly less important areas. Just as significant is the glaring facts that UAW negotiated 30-year auto pensions are overwhelmingly unequal. UAW officials refused to keep pensions up with the cost of living Increases over the years, which allowed older retirees pensions to fall dangerously behind. These UAW retirees who have given so much to our nation have become America’s elderly poor and are tapped-out with living costs. They have also been denied the pension building tools available to today’s retirees and simply cannot afford to buy healthcare on their meager pensions. It is an American tragedy that these elderly retirees would be targeted and betrayed. Share the following links… http://unionreview.com/insights-analysis-uaw-betrays-autoworkers http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page12.htm http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/08/11/interview-with-whitey-hale/ http://www.umflint.edu/library/archives/westfall.htm http://www.speroforum.com/site/print.asp?idarticle=16991 http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id6.html http://www.uawndm.org/ndmportal/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=157 http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page14.htm http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id17.html http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id50.html http://westfallmike.tripod.com/ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3A*%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7G- FRD&q=mike+westfall+uaw&btnG=Search |
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Replying to: kipk (Jan 02, 2009 5:42 am) Surely they offer safety in the 401K plan? Fiduciary obligation by plans mandate that they offer choice. I think you have prudent choice made by people confused. Risk is assumed by opting for returns rather than lower returns for safety. If you concern doesn't offer choice, they are open to law suits. Reagan was busy straightening out Carters mess. As you might remember, under Carter, interest rates to buy a house were 18%. To buy a car was 21% and Bank CD's were paying 15%. Unemployment was in the double digits. Lets not forget that Nixon instituted the ill fated wage and price controls. Any economist will tell you these are certain to bring about shortages and surpluses. Inflation was double digit during the Nixon era. Inflation is defined as too much money chasing too few goods. Hence, price being the rationing mechanism, they go up. Inflation is factored into interest rates. The lenders want you to pay them back with money which has the same purchasing power and reasonable return for their risk. I don't know of anyone who lays blame on the Carter era for inflation. He further cut spending, such as the B1 bomber, at the same time that the Vietnam war was ending its massive spending. You have to also account for govt debt as the so called "crowding effect" in private investing. Hence, you have to factor in the govt debt as an evil which makes private borrowing more expensive and or puts it off all together. Inflation robs those on fixed incomes of purchasing power. The UAW has a COLA (cost of living adjustment) not to make money, but rather to maintain purchasing power. Its not a raise in the traditional sense, but rather a method to assure the same standard of living. Unfortunately the pension plans don't have this feature. So it might well be that the pension check is a risky situation. Suppose that your on a fixed pension and we have hyperinflation, your screwed. So instead of govt spending and or the FED lowering the interest rate to stimulate the economy, they raise interest rates and govt rein in spending to head off inflation. This was what Carter was trying to do. Its just foolish to think that Carter had any inflationary policies. Because we do listen to talk radio and watch Fox, CNN, CNBC, C-Span, and follow up on links supplied in the Internet, it dawned on us that we had been letting that 401K be managed by people that had their own interest at heart. Its like the Realtors when your looking at buying a home. "This is the best time to buy" is just a way for them to try to make commissions. However, it is a great time to buy today (in the current economy) and all those who made home purchases during or at the top of the bubble are surely having regrets. Stock brokers only care about volume and not investors. The higher the volume, the more commissions. They have been known to "churn" those who trust them, like many older folks. They make trades for the sake of their greed/commissions. Interesting that you mention 401K and investments. While at a leadership training week at the infamous learning center/resort I met some great UAW members. Of course you meet leaders or people who are active. Most large organizations, to my experience, have about 10% who are the active folks. In any case these UAW brothers/sister are very like-minded in that respect. Three of us had similar interests and forged a friendship. This developed into a limited partnership. We were all from different states and each have unique skill sets. More or less we had an investment club, which began small and grew well. Beyond our wildest expectations, we networked ourselves into some real wealth. Last year, we saw this year coming, gave half to charity and were all the better for knowing each other. Alone we were good but together we were amazing. There are some very talented UAW folks out there and not the stereotypical folks conceptually derived by the media. Just look at that article I posted by a UAW brother.
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Replying to: mwestfall (Jan 02, 2009 6:42 am) WH: I believe with all my heart that Walter Reuther would turn in his grave, if he could see what past and current leaders have done to his beloved union. It would be fair to say that if Walter were still leading this once great union, it would not be in the shape it is today. The noose is seriously tightening on UAW workers in this country. The 2-tier wage system you mentioned is a disgrace to our union. This 2-tier system will eventually be reduced to one tier of low-wage workers after the seniority workers have been bought out or retire, with the resulting profits going to the GM Corp. I believe that is exactly correct. You cannot have people working side by side with huge wage disparity and no hope to attain the top tier. That was a BIG Gettlefinger screw-up. WH: Mike, this has always been a sore spot with me and should be with every UAW member active or retired. Mike, most people don’t know that our UAW International Reps live in a world apart from us. A world where they are insulated from ever worrying about money or losing benefits. They have a far superior contract covering themselves than the workers they represent. They are covered under the standard UAW contract as we all are, plus they have a second retirement plan, over and above the first one, that is funded by our dues. Their health care plan is superior to the workers they represent. Some of the other perks are they get COLA on their second pensions. They qualify for their second pension after as little as five years on staff. There is never a concession contract for these International Reps. It only gets improved upon. Provisions like car allowance improvements, towing, oil changes, expense accounts, raises on pensions, and benefits each contract are taken for granted by International Reps. I think the pain and suffering is being experienced only by our active workers and retirees; definitely not by our International Reps. Our International Union Reps definitely need to quit asking our members to give concessions while they continue to add to their nest egg. As someone that has retired from 46 years as a Union worker, I do understand the frustration. My question is how do you think that GM, Ford or Chrysler can survive and continue to pay these legacy costs? Do you really think that giving someone a pension & Health benefits at 30 years service is realistic? I know the Alaska Teamsters that I retired from eliminated health care benefits a long time ago. They believed it would be too much of a drain on the pension fund. Most Unions are moving the retirement age minimum up to 59 years of age. I stayed to 63 to assure a healthy retirement. Though my wife does not get any pension when I die.
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