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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 01, 2009 6:26 am) 
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Replying to: kipk (Jan 01, 2009 6:10 am) Probably all union jobs paying top dollar. My question is how many spend their day surfing the web, with nothing else to do. Where were these 116,000 people we are paying $24 billion per year when oil prices shot through the roof? Did they spend any time investigating Soros and his hedge funds that were involved in much of the oil speculation. Or is that some other union agency that investigates currency and commodity speculation. Sadly we have all the ingredients in this new administration and Congress to expand the Federal government by a very large number. How many new agencies will it take to over see the spending of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS.... |
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 01, 2009 12:09 am) To compete is one thing. The legacy is a burden on the big three, which is beyond anything the competition has. Its been my experience that assets would have to be sold off, and more than likely have been sold off. Does GM own EDS any longer? Then in the end the trustee would have to go along with dumping the entire liquidation onto the taxpayers. You also have to be aware they would assure 100% of those on a pension and 50% to 75% of others whom are vested but yet not retired. I don't see this any different that LTV steel conglomerate. My question would be if that would effect the profitable GM overseas? Would they be burdened by the legacy? Would they be allowed to sell, lets say each plant as a stand alone and or each division, parts without the legacy tied to those parts? Then we would be fools not to ignore any medical benefits they don't honor would increase the social services costs to taxpayers. Further evidence suggests: But puzzlement is giving way to concern, as the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp has warned that Delphi is some $3.5b in the hole on its pension obligations. And no wonder, considering GM saddled it with pension obligations from several closed and sold factories as a spin-off goodbye present in 1999, a move pension experts call "legal." As in there ought to be a law against it. Meanwhile, hundreds of the non-Delphi retirees have received letters from the supplier saying their pensions are at risk, thanks to Delphi's bankruptcy. Delphi is supposed to transfer $1.5b in (hourly retiree) obligations back to moneybags GM, but mysteriously that hasn't happened yet, prompting the PBGC's concern with the situation. Though Delphi's bosses swear up and down that they're committed to honoring pension obligations, if the transfer doesn't happen by September 30 when new PBGC rules go into effect, Delphi will likely find itself in pension default. Which means hundreds of workers who never even worked for Delphi would be at the mercy of the PBGC. And those same new rules mean the PBGC will likely not honor most planned payment step-ups and early retirement benefits. "I don't want a handout," says one retiree. "I want General Motors to pay my pensions like they told me they were going to do." then there is Pension plans in America no longer represent commitments that financially troubled companies will honor. Neither bankruptcy courts, nor Washington, nor unions have the clout to make them do so. The disposition of these plans is instead left to serve the needs of big investors. Often these investors are a failing company’s best hope of restructuring after bankruptcy. Investors want a lean investment unburdened with financial promises to employees no longer on the payroll. Despite laws passed to discourage the termination of plans, the courts allow it, caving in to the forces garnered to reinvigorate a failing company. Unions are often compelled to choose between the financial welfare of retirees and jobs for active workers. Pension Dumping explains in shocking detail how terminating the pension plan became a knee-jerk strategy for bankrupt companies that hope to attract big investors to help them reorganize. Hawthorne traces the dynamics and the players involved as a pension is targeted for termination: the bankruptcy court and the hierarchy of power that dictates whose interests will prevail the choices forced on unions the burden placed on the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation the risks investors take and the returns they look for the companies’ efforts to salvage what they can as they restructure, as well as the backlash they risk by breaking pension promises more fear mongering The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. steps in to take over failed pension plans. After studying updated pension information for the auto makers in recent weeks, the agency has grown increasingly concerned that it might have to cover billions of dollars in pensions if one or more of the car companies should file for bankruptcy-court protection. The agency's letters were sent as the auto makers scramble to assemble blueprints for congressional leaders demanding viable business plans in exchange for a $25 billion bailout. Generally, the auto companies have positioned themselves as well-prepared to continue paying pensions for several years to come. When GM last gave a year-end update on its pension funds, the funds covered more than 400,000 retirees and were overfunded by $18.8 billion. But earlier this month, GM said its plan for hourly workers was underfunded by $500 million because of restructuring expenses. Its plan for salaried employees remains overfunded by at least $500 million. The PBGC, which insures the retirement savings of almost 44 million Americans, ended last year with a $14 billion deficit. That shortfall narrowed to about $11 billion as of late September. Were GM to place its pension burden on PBGC, it would more than double the agency's current shortfall. —Matthew Dolan contributed to this article
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Replying to: bpeebles (Dec 31, 2008 9:05 pm) |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 31, 2008 11:25 pm) Quality problems have been creeping up at Toyota... Who learned what from whom? The golf course is gaining traction - Carpocalypse Now (Jalopnik). Note the snide comment - "they teach leadership courses there." The Wall Street Journal, meanwhile, is trying to blame the UAW for all of Detroit's woes, including CAFE, shareholders getting wiped out, debt holders getting a haircut, Daimler's dumping of Chrysler and if you look close enough, the War of 1812 is probably buried in there somewhere too. link. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 01, 2009 7:48 am) GM is BROKE. They believed when they made the deal with the UAW long years ago that the gravy train selling big profit vehicles would continue to rise Forever. GM screwed up and those that believed in them are screwed. If PBGC were to take over the GM pension fund in the case of bankruptcy the current pensioners would probably get 100% of their pension. I don't think they cover any health care under PBGC. That will be on the pensioner's shoulders. If they are not 65 they may need to go back to some job that pays health care or just bite the bullet and buy a plan until they are 65. Those that are vested with 5 years or more may or may not get the full amount of retirement they are expecting. If PBGC is showing a deficit of $14 billion they need to cut pensions to bring the fund back into the black. There is no earthly reason the tax payers should be burdened with private pensions that fail. The laws are in place to protect those pension funds. If PBGC is doing what they are paid to do they should be floating along ok. It sounds like it is the same kind of Ponzi scheme we have been sold with Social Security and Medicare. And people want to give the government more to over see. What a joke this country has become. The UAW better do whatever it takes to keep GM afloat. Get rid of the two tier wage and put everyone under $20 per hour would be a start. A fork lift driver or a lug nut assembler is not worth $20 an hour in Michigan today. I can hire skilled journeymen carpenters, plumbers, block layer, concrete finishers and electricians in CA for $20-$30 per hour contract. They pay all their own medical, SS and retirement for that price. They supply truck and tools. And are happy to get the work. UAW workers need to come into the 21st century. They are living in the past. And the past is about to disappear. Welcome to 2009......
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Replying to: kipk (Jan 01, 2009 5:35 am) After the dot com bubble the FED started lowering the interest rates to fuel the economy. This is the beginning of the sub prime mess. Prior they were making loans to dot com companies who weren't even making a profit. Everyone in Washington went along. If Bush had any vision he would have not tampered with interest rates or gotten the FED to leave things alone. He failed to see the big picture, which is only a small piece of the big puzzle. Then the manner in which they packaged the loans and sold them as assets is an entirely different situation. They should have labeled them correctly as junk loans and not some fancy coined marketing label to hide their true nature. We can only agree and have evidence that the govt acted to fix the problem after the fact. There was ample opportunity to act prior and avoid the whole situation all together. The landslide loss of congressional seats by the dems in the mid 90 had a lot to do with the 1994 Gun Control (10 year ban) passed by congress just prior to the election. Everyone that belonged to the NRA, or any other gun friendly group, received mail naming names of the Congress and Senate members that had voted for the Ban. There were enough pissed off gun owners that swung the outcome vote to the republicans. I saw the NRA as a subset of many. Many UAW rank and file members are NRA members too. You had pro life folks and others too. Many UAW members are pro life too. They played every group they could. The Bob Jones University incident is a classic example of how politics is done. McCain, would have been the GOP winner if not for the Carl Rove political smear tactic. Well the GOP had their chance and its rather obvious that Americans want a change and or look for Obama to save them. I think that those NRA/pro life/other special interest groups voted their pocketbooks in 06 and 08. Strong powerful like minded groups/special interests/lobby's/unions/AARP ban together at times to put forth their agenda. However, their first priorities are the economy when all is said and done. |
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Replying to: kipk (Jan 01, 2009 6:10 am) for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration? Was it the embargo? When was the strategic reserve started? I do see your point. Then you have to see the mass deregualtion of the private sector as failure. The best we can say is big business = big govt = big labor and hence they keep each other in check. Wonder what percentage of GNP is govt and its different dept? Is defense 3%? Is EPA 1%?
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Jan 01, 2009 8:48 am) It's hard to relate that stuff to the UAW though.
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 01, 2009 9:00 am) Not for me. It is the Unions and UAW that put yokels like Carter in the White House. I was in Alaska and do not remember any gas shortage. Though the Unions up there were also misguided in their voting preferences. |
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