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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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"Maybe we should let them go broke and pay out the money in unemployment claims."...is that we are not talking Chapter 7 liquidation, we are talking about Chapter 11 reorganization, which includes dumping of debt and old contracts that are simply unable to be paid... SOME will go on unemployment, but eventually that unemployment will end and they will have to find jobs in something other than UAW work...the others will keep on working making cars, just not to the amount that they did before...a few million less, keeping in line with their market share... Over the last decade, for many UAW jobs lost, there were Japanese automaker jobs that employed someone else who did not work in the auto industry prior to the transplants...so, employment is not, per se, disappearing, just being "shifted" from union states to non-union states... The only reason we see all the screaming is that the UAW screams louder and has the ear of the media...how many auto jobs were created by Toy, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Mercedes and BMW moving into the South to make their vehicles???...what we are watching is an evolution, and the UAW does not believe in evolution, they believe in the Divine Right of Jobs to be theirs, reagrdless of their pay or the quality of the product they make...that era will end, and none too soon... Michigan may have been critical in the previous century, but Michigan will go the way of the dinosaur, and it is all their own fault...they saw this coming, and they shut their eyes, hoping that the "bad man in the dark closet" will go away...he is here to stay, and he is making a better product than they do...and all they want is to keep the Jobs Bank going so they can be paid to do nothing... Change is coming, all right, and it is about to wake up the union from its deep slumber of 50 years...and its about damn time...
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Replying to: chikoo (Dec 30, 2008 9:30 am) You understood NOTHING from what I said. NOTHING - ZIP. NADA. Please, read back a few pages. I will try again in a plain language. I said nothing about giving anyone anything, other than opportunity to better themselves. I was exactly saying we used to have a competitive edge against others both in technology and education, thus we could consume more than others. But we got fat (literally), lazy and stupid, and even more important, others remained lean, got smarter and kept working, that's why others are getting the jobs that used to "belong" to us. Nobody gave them anything, perhaps except opportunity that is associated with capitalism (the one that does not give anything forever), and they used it. We would rather watch footbal, get fat, blame everybody but ourselves and demand protections for "our" jobs, "our" products, or "our" privilidges. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 9:19 am) Are you serious???? After months on this board you still don't know??? Do you even read anything here? Let's try again then: It is called "non-competitive labor cost". If car brand A costs 20K to make and sells for 21K, the company makes 1K/car. If car brand B costs 22K to make but it has to firesell it for 18K then the company loses 4K per car. If coincidentally company B overall cost of labor is 3K per car more than company A and all other costs are comparable, then that cost the labor is directly responsible for Company B loss. If removed, Company B could add $1000 to the cost of its car in refinements and improvements so it can actually charge the same or maybe more than Company A and start making money. That cost is direct link between Company B success or demise. It's not all labor's fault, as it's really the management who should make sure those costs are in line, but if the labor chooses to cover its ears and eyes in mud and use its power to simply milk the beast to its death, you cannot then shed the responsibility from them. Or perhaps you would like to blame the whole sub prime mess on the tellers at the banks? Perhaps not on tellers, but on those mortgage officers who would tell people to lie on their applications to get approved - yeah, I would. But, to be clear - I never said it was "all" their fault. If you read me, you would find out I actually put majority of blame (60%) on the management and minority (30%) on UAW with marginal participation (10%) of politicians.
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 30, 2008 9:52 am) In South Carolina, it's just about ended. WISTV Now, what's going to happen if SC and other southern states go begging for bailout money? Will the northern (UAW backed) senators tell them to let BMW bail them out? With all the incentives SC gave to BMW ($150M - link), how come it has the nation's third-worst unemployment rate? |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 9:31 am) But why? I'm a classical liberal - just like you. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 9:19 am) This sums up the problem of the UAW in a nutshell. The UAW worries only about themselves - the easiest possible work with the highest possible compensation. The UAW views the company's health as a management problem. At most non-union companies and many unionized companies, all of the employees see their part in the success of the company.
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 30, 2008 10:37 am) Unfortunately the Toyota/Honda darlings of the business schools aren't doing too well either. As the prevailing wages go in any given area, the transplants must compete with the local wages, the non union folks get a boost to their pay due to there being competing market forces out there seeking labor too. You have to be aware that the UAW has on many occasions made concessions. The two tier wage scale, the early retirements, and others to make GM more competitive. At some point management has to fess up to their transgressions. Just because your from some elite country club lineage doesn't mean you have the skills and or ability to run a major corporation. Besides, the six sigma/lean mentality has been in the Big Three for years now. The Toyota/Honda executives are bailing by the day as they see the CEO orgy going on in this nation. Perhaps not on tellers, but on those mortgage officers who would tell people to lie on their applications to get approved - yeah, I would. Some history from the past. Deregulate and they will come, supply side, Reagan Legacy. As if the S&L didn't teach us anything. This will go down in history as ENRON era. One could write an entire book on these con artist impersonating capitalist. Imagine a billion dollar stadium built by taxpayer for an egotistical owner of the Cowboys. Perhaps you would like to get one of those valet parking, fast food cook, or any of the small wage jobs. These jobs will tax the county social services, just as the Walmart jobs cost $2000 per employee in social services. Where are the savings? Its a hidden cost, just as are those super toxic dumps of years ago.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 11:07 am) I never said it's all UAW. What I I have a problem with is refusal to acknowledge any problem on part of the labor organizations. I simply protest "iIt's all the Wall Street/country club fat cat crowd to blame and Gettelfinger is practically a saint for fighting for our free Viagra prescriptions" attitudes.
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 30, 2008 10:41 am) I'm doing my part buying UTW (United Tobacco Workers) SC-grown tobacco products.  Maybe the SC government needs to give these people a stake - to give each unemployed person 10 acres, a leftover FEMA trailer, some seed, and a book on how to farm.
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Replying to: tlong (Dec 30, 2008 10:55 am) That by definition is the CEO. So tell me why the CEO earns more? Then tell me why the CEO's in America earn more worldwide? Then tell me if you would like to be a rank and file union member or a CEO?
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