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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 8:16 am) And bankruptcy reorganization is the only way to get from here to there, as I know you'll agree. Without bankruptcy, there can be no rebirth. But when I tell you that, I know I'm preaching to the converted. Welcome!
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 6:10 am)
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 30, 2008 8:36 am) UAW brass is on the rank and file memberships payroll. D3 are on the shareholders payroll. I just don't understand. Why is the UAW responsible for the business of GM? What responsibility does either party have to the shareholders/rank and file? These are two different things. Mutually exclusive things which bear little if any co-relation. Any sane and rational person could see that this has become a political witch hunt. The facts are as such. AIG is treated like family, even as they embarrass the entire business community and all but party the bail out money away. GM is the one looking for the bail out and not the UAW. The UAW has gone above and beyond in prior years/contracts to restructure contracts in a manner as to aid the GM management. So why does GM have problems getting a fraction of the bail out money given to the sub prime folks? Lets just state the obvious. It stands to reason that the UAW didn't support these GOP folks in southern states. All of these great transplants were subsidized by these states and therefore are being supported by tax dollars. Implicitly or explicitly why should I and or anyone want to pay for some companies expenses? Corporate welfare steals from the consumer/taxpayer and has no place in the free market. If they seek to build stadiums/arenas/corporations, they should do so on their own and not seek taxpayers to share the risk. Last time I checked entrepreneur meant risk taker and is entitled to the spoils/profits. Or perhaps you would like to blame the whole sub prime mess on the tellers at the banks? Bombard me with some logic and or rational thought process. I can get the spin from the corporate owned mainstream media.
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 29, 2008 2:10 pm) Really? All the hard work spent in research and development amount to nothing? Just because some bugger somewhere has the skills to do it for cheaper means we go ahead and give him all the technological secrets? I am not denying them developing on their own. But to share all technological secrets just so that we can get products cheaper is a very short sighted viewpoint. Ever heard of "Competitive edge"? In your scenario, what is the US's competitive edge once they know the technological fundamentals that catapulted the US to such heights? >It's like soda pop. You can cork it and shake it, but one day is has to get open. Sure. But does not mean we go ahead and start opening all the cans prematurely for them. If somebody is worth it, they will uncork it themselves.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 30, 2008 8:28 am) Thats Obama's call. He is the forward thinking brilliant Commander and Chief hired by the American people to fix it. So if your not going to get Bill Gates out of retirement, perhaps you ought to consider alterations to your ideology.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 7:39 am) What works in Texas does not always work in Michigan. One big reason "Right to Work". The Union knows that they have to maintain a good balance between management and labor or the REAL workers will drop out of the Union. UAW control over the big 3 is totally lopsided in favor of labor. That is not healthy and the current condition of the D3 is evidence that what I am saying is right. During my 46 years in the Union and especially the last 37 years in the Teamsters. We were always cognizant of the financial health of the company. Our negotiations were based on that knowledge. We many times knew more about the company finances than the company negotiators. Our goal was to keep the golden goose fat and happy. UAW has failed in that respect. |
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"Maybe we should let them go broke and pay out the money in unemployment claims."...is that we are not talking Chapter 7 liquidation, we are talking about Chapter 11 reorganization, which includes dumping of debt and old contracts that are simply unable to be paid... SOME will go on unemployment, but eventually that unemployment will end and they will have to find jobs in something other than UAW work...the others will keep on working making cars, just not to the amount that they did before...a few million less, keeping in line with their market share... Over the last decade, for many UAW jobs lost, there were Japanese automaker jobs that employed someone else who did not work in the auto industry prior to the transplants...so, employment is not, per se, disappearing, just being "shifted" from union states to non-union states... The only reason we see all the screaming is that the UAW screams louder and has the ear of the media...how many auto jobs were created by Toy, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Mercedes and BMW moving into the South to make their vehicles???...what we are watching is an evolution, and the UAW does not believe in evolution, they believe in the Divine Right of Jobs to be theirs, reagrdless of their pay or the quality of the product they make...that era will end, and none too soon... Michigan may have been critical in the previous century, but Michigan will go the way of the dinosaur, and it is all their own fault...they saw this coming, and they shut their eyes, hoping that the "bad man in the dark closet" will go away...he is here to stay, and he is making a better product than they do...and all they want is to keep the Jobs Bank going so they can be paid to do nothing... Change is coming, all right, and it is about to wake up the union from its deep slumber of 50 years...and its about damn time...
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Replying to: chikoo (Dec 30, 2008 9:30 am) You understood NOTHING from what I said. NOTHING - ZIP. NADA. Please, read back a few pages. I will try again in a plain language. I said nothing about giving anyone anything, other than opportunity to better themselves. I was exactly saying we used to have a competitive edge against others both in technology and education, thus we could consume more than others. But we got fat (literally), lazy and stupid, and even more important, others remained lean, got smarter and kept working, that's why others are getting the jobs that used to "belong" to us. Nobody gave them anything, perhaps except opportunity that is associated with capitalism (the one that does not give anything forever), and they used it. We would rather watch footbal, get fat, blame everybody but ourselves and demand protections for "our" jobs, "our" products, or "our" privilidges. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 30, 2008 9:19 am) Are you serious???? After months on this board you still don't know??? Do you even read anything here? Let's try again then: It is called "non-competitive labor cost". If car brand A costs 20K to make and sells for 21K, the company makes 1K/car. If car brand B costs 22K to make but it has to firesell it for 18K then the company loses 4K per car. If coincidentally company B overall cost of labor is 3K per car more than company A and all other costs are comparable, then that cost the labor is directly responsible for Company B loss. If removed, Company B could add $1000 to the cost of its car in refinements and improvements so it can actually charge the same or maybe more than Company A and start making money. That cost is direct link between Company B success or demise. It's not all labor's fault, as it's really the management who should make sure those costs are in line, but if the labor chooses to cover its ears and eyes in mud and use its power to simply milk the beast to its death, you cannot then shed the responsibility from them. Or perhaps you would like to blame the whole sub prime mess on the tellers at the banks? Perhaps not on tellers, but on those mortgage officers who would tell people to lie on their applications to get approved - yeah, I would. But, to be clear - I never said it was "all" their fault. If you read me, you would find out I actually put majority of blame (60%) on the management and minority (30%) on UAW with marginal participation (10%) of politicians.
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 30, 2008 9:52 am) In South Carolina, it's just about ended. WISTV Now, what's going to happen if SC and other southern states go begging for bailout money? Will the northern (UAW backed) senators tell them to let BMW bail them out? With all the incentives SC gave to BMW ($150M - link), how come it has the nation's third-worst unemployment rate? |
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