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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 6:33 am) I disagree with that statement. Fact is that auto technicians are considered engineers in India. Just look at where the world sends their offspring to get educate. Its The United States of America and they pay that out of country tuition to boot. I will give you the Asian's are taking more position in some of our best schools. So goes the saying, MIT stands for Made In Taiwan. How many more times do we need to have rammed down our throats that India and China are creaming the U.S. when it comes to the numbers of engineers that are being produced yearly? Surely it must millions a year by now, right? Okay, I'm being sarcastic. China produced more than 600,000 engineers in 2005, and India produces nearly 500,000 technical graduates annually. But even if those numbers are greater than the numbers in the U.S., there’s another element under scrutiny: what’s the quality of the education these students are receiving in India and China? In many cases, the quality is not very good and they are having a hard time getting hired, according to a recent report in Newsweek International. Well, it’s no wonder that’s the case if engineering students in India show up for class and there are no teachers, as the report mentions. The report offers many interesting points, particularly on the quality of education the graduates receive. For example, corporate recruiters in both India and China say there is a shortage of qualified applicants. "Out of the huge number of engineering and science graduates that India produces, only 25 to 30 percent can be regarded as suitable," says Kiran Karnik, head of the National Association of Software and Services Companies. The reason, the report says, is underfunding and other factors that have produced serious educational crises in India and China. The authors quote M.A. Pai, who taught at the Indian Institute of Technology in Kanpur, who warns the "lack of highly trained people at the Ph.D. level in both sciences and engineering will be a serious setback to India becoming a knowledge economy." I’m not saying we don’t have a real problem on our hands when it comes to the numbers of engineers we’re cranking out yearly in this country compared to China and India. I just think we need to look at the high-quality technical institutions we have here, the U.S. citizens who attend them and are receiving fantastic educations, and remember that we’re looked on as a world technology leader for some very good reasons. Let’s not become enamored with engineers educated in India and China because they have the reputation of being whiz kids in math and science. Let’s look at the whole picture.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 29, 2008 7:09 am) My nephew was just accepted for the Fall semester at MIT right out of High School. He took that over the Cal Poly acceptance. He is German/Irish decent all American kid. I was basing my view of Engineers coming from India on what a friend at HP has told me. Also 60 Minutes did a report on Engineering students from India. Of course that was probably very left slanted. Let’s not become enamored with engineers educated in India and China because they have the reputation of being whiz kids in math and science. Let’s look at the whole picture. I agree with you. I just see so many kids here in CA thinking they are going to make it delivering auto parts or working at a grocery store. Most living at home spending their entire paycheck on a stupid car. Most are not UAW made cars. Just the Tahoe & PU crowd drive Domestic vehicles.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 29, 2008 7:07 am) If you have a country subsidizing an industry and therefore stealing jobs/work from the more efficient industry, your not doing the consumer any favors either. As we speak folks out there are playing with the supply and demand for all sorts of goods and services. Laissez faire has become an abstract at best. If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? The steel industry goes much further back in history as do farm subsidies. Textiles, steel, and now they want the auto base. This goes beyond the comparative advantage and into a world of self interested multi national corporations operating outside of the free enterprise system. Fueled by greed they seek to profit from inequities and not to compete heads up. Monopolies, oligopolies, and other forms of advanage is what they are after at the end of the day. The sure thing. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 29, 2008 7:09 am) A wife of a very good friend of mine is a highly paid software developer for a firm out of SanFran. She told me she's required to use Indian software engineers to debug software and they're terrible. She said when the code comes back from the Indian debugers, she'll still find more bugs in a few days than the Indian engineers found after a week. The difference is she makes more in a day than a whole team of Indian software engineers probably do in a week. IMO, Chinese and Indian engineering schools are putting out more quantity than quality. That said, we can't sit back and not worry about keeping our lead in technology. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 7:54 am) Thats fantastic, now he must finish. Be sure to put the monkey on his back to do well. Freshmen need to be inspired and given a heads up on what to be expect. As I recall at MIT the freshmen were allowed to exclude their first years grades from their GPA. If they are told the difference between high school and college, they can hit the ground running. |
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 29, 2008 6:07 am) These days, thats better than sex. Well almost.
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If you have a country subsidizing an industry and therefore stealing jobs/work from the more efficient industry, your [sic] not doing the consumer any favors either. As we speak folks out there are playing with the supply and demand for all sorts of goods and services. Laissez faire has become an abstract at best. Sorry, DD, but this doesn't make sense. You're dancing around the fact that tariffs derive whatever effectiveness they have by punishing customers for making what tariff supporters consider to be wrong choices. You're also ignoring the fact that an industry protected from outside competition by tariffs has less incentive to make the investments & changes needed to stay competitive. In the long run, tariffs hurt more than they help. And even if you believe that tariffs help domestic manufacturers at the low end of the market, where customer choices are largely price-driven, you have to explain how they'll change outcomes at the upper end. If an affluent customer has decided that he'd rather drive an $80K 7-series BMW than a $60K Cadillac STS, how will a tariff change his mind?
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 29, 2008 8:37 am) Or in my case, a BMW X5 35d built in America by non Union labor vs a Domestic built by the UAW. Plus the Domestics do not offer me a diesel SUV. Seems that is the problem most of the time the Domestics more and more are not offering what the American consumer wants to buy. I cannot think of a single vehicle built here by UAW labor that would tempt me at 40% below MSRP. That is just what many are selling for today. GM cannot continue to bleed red ink even with US printing money as fast as they waste it. PS I take that back. A Corvette at 40% discount would be a big temptation. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 28, 2008 10:48 pm) Cannot exercise the stock options since they are upside down and worthless at this time. What is the deferred compensation that GM execs have? Sure would like to know what that is. And what do you think the Golden Parachute is for GM execs? |
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