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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16701 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM
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Replying to: 04cad (Dec 29, 2008 5:40 am) If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? Instead of lowering our standard of living, perhaps we should hope to raise everyone's standard to a higher level? America doesn't allow cartels, dumping of product (steel), and other price support measures. However, they can be used as tools/weapons at times when other nations don't abide by the no government interference abstract. One could argue that Japan by its nature (an island with few natural resources) has to get some kind of market advantage. Our economy seems to be based on Micky Ds, health care and paper. The case in point that special interest have gone to Washington with millions to protect/better their industry/profession is self evident with the health care. Do they as an industry really care about the nations well being? Or are they wanting to get special treatment? Outsourcing our good paying jobs so we can spend a few dollars less on things imported has depleted our purchasing power across the board. If we were to add equal tariffs to items coming into our country like other countries charge, it would level the playing field a bit. It would still be hard for us to compete with prison or child labor. The weak dollar as oppose to other currencies should make American made goods more attractive/appealing overseas. Hence, exports should fuel more manufacturing jobs here. This is the only good news in this downturn, we can look forward to. We know that the nations losing these jobs will be thinking along the "keep those jobs lines". Steel (historically) was an excellent example of dumping, and China is protecting it steel industry in this day and age. OPEC is trying to control supply and therefore price of oil. The AMA and others are keeping medical cost high. They should not cheat the consumer. They behave like spoiled little brats. So why aren't these issues being dealt with by our govt? Could it be that they are the ones being courted by special interest? |
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Replying to: dino001 (Dec 29, 2008 6:09 am) Great post. I could not have said it any better. We have had a good run and now we have to compete with people that are as good if not better than we are. The engineers coming out of India are beating the socks off of our engineers. Too many of our young people feel that same entitlement that the UAW workers cling to. They go to college and party instead of get all they can get. We saw first hand what happens when gas went to $4.50 per gallon. The country started to unravel. Well the EU has paid twice that for decades. They also pay a lot more for a car. They get taxed more and do not have the luxuries we have gotten used to. The UAW and GM made promises they cannot keep and compete. Choices will have to be made. Do we feed the retirees to the lions or cut our wages in half to take care of the past workers. $25 per hour needs to be eliminated from the UAW contracts with GM and its UAW suppliers. Who is going to give up something? Or would the UAW rather go down in flames than give anything up? |
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Replying to: 04cad (Dec 29, 2008 5:40 am) So you think that by forcing me to pay more for an imported car, you can "persuade" me to buy a domestic. You hope to use tariffs to change my behavior. The trouble with this is that the change that you get probably won't be the change that you want. I might respond by (1) deciding to keep my old car for another couple of years to give Congress a chance to repeal the tariff, (2) buying a used car or (3) paying the higher price to get the import I really want. None of these responses will help domestic auto makers. If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? The steel tariffs were imposed early in the 1st Bush administration for purely political reasons - to reward conservative Democrats in states like West Virginia who had voted Republican in 2000. As I recall, they were rescinded after a few months, partly because GM & other domestic car makers complained that pricier steel would drive up the cost of American-made vehicles. Also, American appliance manufacturers, hurt by higher steel prices, threatened to move their production offshore if the tariffs weren't removed. That shows you why tariffs really don't work. They help one group of workers by punishing consumers & other groups of workers.
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 6:33 am) I disagree with that statement. Fact is that auto technicians are considered engineers in India. Just look at where the world sends their offspring to get educate. Its The United States of America and they pay that out of country tuition to boot. I will give you the Asian's are taking more position in some of our best schools. So goes the saying, MIT stands for Made In Taiwan. How many more times do we need to have rammed down our throats that India and China are creaming the U.S. when it comes to the numbers of engineers that are being produced yearly? Surely it must millions a year by now, right? Okay, I'm being sarcastic. China produced more than 600,000 engineers in 2005, and India produces nearly 500,000 technical graduates annually. But even if those numbers are greater than the numbers in the U.S., there’s another element under scrutiny: what’s the quality of the education these students are receiving in India and China? In many cases, the quality is not very good and they are having a hard time getting hired, according to a recent report in Newsweek International. Well, it’s no wonder that’s the case if engineering students in India show up for class and there are no teachers, as the report mentions. The report offers many interesting points, particularly on the quality of education the graduates receive. For example, corporate recruiters in both India and China say there is a shortage of qualified applicants. "Out of the huge number of engineering and science graduates that India produces, only 25 to 30 percent can be regarded as suitable," says Kiran Karnik, head of the National Association of Software and Services Companies. The reason, the report says, is underfunding and other factors that have produced serious educational crises in India and China. The authors quote M.A. Pai, who taught at the Indian Institute of Technology in Kanpur, who warns the "lack of highly trained people at the Ph.D. level in both sciences and engineering will be a serious setback to India becoming a knowledge economy." I’m not saying we don’t have a real problem on our hands when it comes to the numbers of engineers we’re cranking out yearly in this country compared to China and India. I just think we need to look at the high-quality technical institutions we have here, the U.S. citizens who attend them and are receiving fantastic educations, and remember that we’re looked on as a world technology leader for some very good reasons. Let’s not become enamored with engineers educated in India and China because they have the reputation of being whiz kids in math and science. Let’s look at the whole picture.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 29, 2008 7:09 am) My nephew was just accepted for the Fall semester at MIT right out of High School. He took that over the Cal Poly acceptance. He is German/Irish decent all American kid. I was basing my view of Engineers coming from India on what a friend at HP has told me. Also 60 Minutes did a report on Engineering students from India. Of course that was probably very left slanted. Let’s not become enamored with engineers educated in India and China because they have the reputation of being whiz kids in math and science. Let’s look at the whole picture. I agree with you. I just see so many kids here in CA thinking they are going to make it delivering auto parts or working at a grocery store. Most living at home spending their entire paycheck on a stupid car. Most are not UAW made cars. Just the Tahoe & PU crowd drive Domestic vehicles.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 29, 2008 7:07 am) If you have a country subsidizing an industry and therefore stealing jobs/work from the more efficient industry, your not doing the consumer any favors either. As we speak folks out there are playing with the supply and demand for all sorts of goods and services. Laissez faire has become an abstract at best. If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? The steel industry goes much further back in history as do farm subsidies. Textiles, steel, and now they want the auto base. This goes beyond the comparative advantage and into a world of self interested multi national corporations operating outside of the free enterprise system. Fueled by greed they seek to profit from inequities and not to compete heads up. Monopolies, oligopolies, and other forms of advanage is what they are after at the end of the day. The sure thing. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 29, 2008 7:09 am) A wife of a very good friend of mine is a highly paid software developer for a firm out of SanFran. She told me she's required to use Indian software engineers to debug software and they're terrible. She said when the code comes back from the Indian debugers, she'll still find more bugs in a few days than the Indian engineers found after a week. The difference is she makes more in a day than a whole team of Indian software engineers probably do in a week. IMO, Chinese and Indian engineering schools are putting out more quantity than quality. That said, we can't sit back and not worry about keeping our lead in technology. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 7:54 am) Thats fantastic, now he must finish. Be sure to put the monkey on his back to do well. Freshmen need to be inspired and given a heads up on what to be expect. As I recall at MIT the freshmen were allowed to exclude their first years grades from their GPA. If they are told the difference between high school and college, they can hit the ground running. |
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 29, 2008 6:07 am) These days, thats better than sex. Well almost.
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| Can we get back to the UAW please? | |
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