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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Dec 25, 2008 4:54 pm) This is the problem I see in the unionized environment. "Their contract". "Their job". "Their company". "They [I assume the management] can run it as they see...". I'm used to a non-union environment where everybody works as a team to make the company, and therefore the employees, successful. I don't understand the wisdom of "the machine broke, but you can't touch that, it's not your job", or "We can't strike about that crappy product, it's not our role, or in our contract. It's the management's job. We don't take any responsibility for that". Well they SHOULD take responsibility for that. The management is not off the hook, either. Why is our auto company not as efficient as our competitors? Are we even trying? Did the union refuse to make changes, or is the management asleep? Did the management allow abusive contracts which hogtied the company? That's a management failure. If the competitors can operate in a team fashion and be more efficient, produce better products,have happier employees with MORE job security, then the management AND the union had better damn well make it their collective job to do anything they need to change the situation. Because if they don't (and they haven't for the most part), the competitors will EAT THEIR LUNCH. And then the management who allowed the abusive contracts and the union workers who were greedy go whining to the taxpayer, many/most of who are less well compensated, to bail them out! We've been told in this forum about all that the unions have done for the American worker (true, in the past), and how we should support the union products. Well the average American who is not a union worker sees better products coming from elsewhere and wonders where all this value is by paying higher wages and benes to companies who can't even produce products that are as good as their lesser compensated competitors. Where is the value added? Should our country be based upon more pay for inferior efficiency, quality, craftmanship? There were some real great Lada's in the Eastern Block, is that where we want our country to go by allowing any but the best products to succeed? I'm sorry but I don't see the UAW value any longer, and there are millions of Americans who agree with me. Ultimately even the bailout doesn't matter, what matters is the D3 producing desirable products that enough Americans want to buy. And that is not happening right now, and with an economy that is not likely to recover for at least a year, I don't see it happening anytime soon. And Goldfinger is going to continue to hold out for the short-term financial gains of the unions. He should care about how he's destroying the US auto industry. The pathetic strike of GM plants this year where the most successful products were being produced just shows how low the UAW has descended. I feel sorry for many hardworking individuals, but as a group the UAW needs to die. The faster it happens the better for the long term health of the US auto industry. |
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1. In 2008, A UAW assembly line worker retires, with 30 years service, . His base wage is $28 hourly. He is 60 years old. How much pension does he receive? 2. As a retiree, how much of his medical insurance premiums is he responsible for paying? 3. Under the current medical plan, does he have any deductible or co-pay obligations when using the health insurance? Thanks, Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Dec 26, 2008 4:58 am) Even though the company agreed to pay for all the premiums for the employees and retirees insurance (agreed to in past contracts), the workers and retirees now pay a certain amount per month for their insurance and there are higher copays and deductibles, and GM does not pay one dime towards any office call or injection given in the office. The prescription drug coverage copay has increased about three times in four years? At least that is the way it is in my area, we have no HMO available here and once you retire, you must take the Traditional coverage which is as above I believe no matter where you live?
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Replying to: 04cad (Dec 26, 2008 5:59 am)
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Replying to: kipk (Dec 26, 2008 4:58 am) Hypothetically and reasonably 1) If you receive $50 per year of service per month you would get $1500 a month (minus any dependent option/survivor benefit selected) and a supplement of $750 a month until social security kicks in. So one would lose the $750 at or about 62 years of age. On average or a typical case ($2250 a month until 62 years of age) Survivor benefits elections normally allow 4 options and reduces this on an actuarial bases (age of retiree and age of spouse). In some cases a retiree with under age children, retiring at 62 plus age creep, would be entitled to benefits for that/those children. Then too, a senior citizen begins to draw social security (there is a Little known special rule that allows all SS benefits to be repaid and the retiree to get 120 or is it 125% of their benefit) and continues to work at normal retirement age. Add to that the fact that at 59 and a half he/she may also start to tap into the 401K penalty free and that at 70 pension begins to come in too. So at 70 its possible to get four scoops of ice cream on your cone. 2) At 30 years of service both the retiree and dependent would be fully vested and receive 100% of their medical and those with less than 30 years would be responsible for a portion of their and or their spouses premiums. This would continue until social security kicks in at 65 years of age. (this varies also and could get very complicated) 3) Deductibles would continue the same as the rank and file. Again until the age of 65 when social security kicks in. Then the plan may include the Medigap premium, which is minimal/reasonable. (this varies also and could get very complicated) I do a rule of thumb and or a method of maximizing benefits for special friends. The 401K and savings can be used in the manner intended and or to avoid paying too much in taxes. But the rule of thumb, is that you begin to lose social security and or your social security is taxed if a typical family withdraws over $24,000 a year. If you go early and opt for the IRS spreadsheet to avoid the 10% penalty. You would draw about $1150 a month for each $200,000 in your 401K/IRA. All of this is great to look at and requires planning. Everyones situation is different so remember this is a rule of thumb and by no means get advise from an idiot. This is real money, earned by real people, and not monopoly money.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 25, 2008 11:11 pm) The bottom line is those not covered by medical or dental insurance can get Good medical and dental care plus prescriptions in Mexico for a fraction of the cost in the USA. My dental vacation a few years ago combined a trip to San Miguel de Allende with getting a crown for a tooth that was darkening due to a root canal. When I smiled, it looked as if there was a small piece of coal wedged in my mouth. I planned to be in San Miguel for six weeks, so I didn't feel pressured to rush into a dental chair. It's easy to put off going to the dentist and even easier to procrastinate while vacationing in Mexico, so I waited until about two weeks before departure to make an appointment. Based on recommendations I received from English-speaking foreigners living in San Miguel, I chose a female dentist, formerly a member of the board of the state's dental association. She assured me she could get the job done in ten days. The cost was $120 USD, a good price, considering that my dentist at home wanted ten times that amount. With my Union Dental plan my crowns averaged more than $600 out of my pocket for each one. It would have paid for a nice extended vacation in Mexico. To maintain our Union middle class lifestyle we may need to think outside the box. What needs to be remembered is most Americans do not enjoy the upper middle class lifestyle of the long time UAW or other Union workers. It was a good run and now it is just about over. Coming out of high school as I did and going to work in an industry that afforded me a good retirement is in the past. Not likely to be repeated. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 26, 2008 7:44 am) It's interesting to read comments touting Mexican medical care along with posts opposing nationalized health care, and then read about nationalized health care in Mexico.  Hourly pay panel discussion in Indy: UAW official: Big 3 pay not higher (Indystar)
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I'll leave my comments about Mexican dental care for Arizonans who go down there seeking a better price. My first appointment is a week from tomorrow. My dental work will take at least one more visit there so I'll have good opportunity to gather up information on how the experience went. I have plenty of American co-workers from the hospital here in Willcox that are already doing this, so it's not like I'm some sort of guinea pig in this.  Until June of 2009 a birth certificate and a piece of picture I.D. will suffice to cross the border. I am planning on parking my '08 Lancer GTS in a paid parking lot in Douglas, AZ, the U.S. side, indeed. The walk looks to be about 3/4 of a mile to the dentist there in Agua Prieta, Sonora, Mexico. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 26, 2008 8:01 am) Here is my question. Does Mexico spend as much per person subsidizing health care as we do in the USA? I would be surprised if Mexico spends a fraction on health care that we do. I believe some here think that Socialized medicine will be equal to the gold plated plans many currently have with UAW or company paid plans. You will not be able to just walk in and get a Dr to look at you under a Nationalized plan. It will be weeks to months depending on what kind of specialist you may need. Even with Kaiser it is 6 months wait for my wife to see her Endocrinologist. She ended up twice in ER prior to finding out what her problem was. Specialist around here are in short supply. And San Diego may have the highest concentration of doctors in the country. They like the weather and great golf.
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 26, 2008 9:02 am) But we digress.... |
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