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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 25, 2008 8:30 am) As I watch the coverage of the fate of the U.S. auto industry, one alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the opinion of millions of viewers. Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world. When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units. When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers. Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic. When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid. When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon. Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda. Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars. It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world. Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for 'government subsidies' is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions. After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip! We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap labor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough. Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business. The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims? As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Ford currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment. So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country. So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately? Jim Jackson Elkins Ford |
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Replying to: tlong (Dec 25, 2008 4:18 pm) As far as striking over lackluster products, I don't think that there is a contract in the world that would allow that. Biggest problem, define "not competitive" . That to me is a slippery slope. You could have a strike over nothing. Not to mention, it is "their company" and they can run it as they see, within the rules of the contract.
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Dec 25, 2008 4:06 pm) So which group of tourist frequent Disney the most? |
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Replying to: wtd44 (Dec 25, 2008 3:54 pm) While no automaker would be spared in the shakeout, the deep US presence of Toyota, Honda and Nissan Motor Co make them particularly vulnerable to any supply disruptions, analysts said. Japanese automakers now represent 40 percent of US auto sales. They also build more than 60 percent of their vehicles sold to US consumers in North America. “There isn’t a supplier out there that does not touch GM,” said Erich Merkle, an analyst at Crowe Horwath. Merkle said GM buys $31bn a year from suppliers, “so when you remove GM, the supply base will file for bankruptcy.” Merkle and other analysts said a bankruptcy by an automaker would force many suppliers into liquidation because of the near impossibility of finding financing needed to restructure. “If suppliers liquidate, you won’t have components any more. It’s not just GM, Ford, and Chrysler. It’s Toyota, it’s Honda and it’s Nissan,” Merkle said. The Bush administration is considering emergency aid for the US automakers after a proposed $14bn bailout collapsed in the face of opposition from Senate Republicans. “Honda and Toyota themselves have started to say if these American automakers start to fail, and fail quickly, it will take out the supply base they all depend on,” said David Kudla, chief executive of Mainstay Capital Management. Shares of Toyota, No. 2 in US sales after GM, tumbled 10 percent in Tokyo after the bailout talks failed. Honda and Nissan dropped 12.5 percent and 11.5 percent, respectively. “The US auto market is shrinking rapidly,” Toyota said in a statement. “A major bankruptcy would exacerbate an already difficult environment for Toyota and the industry. We hope to avoid this situation.” http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=business_news&month=de- cember2008&file=business_news2008121452843.xml |
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Detroit's Big Three aren't the only automotive companies that want to see the government step in with some much-needed financial help. Overseas automakers, most notably Toyota Motor, all endorse some form of federal aid to keep General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), Chrysler LLC and possibly Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) out of bankruptcy. "We support measures to help the industry," said Toyota Motor (TM) spokeswoman Mira Sleilati. "We just want a strong, competitive healthy industry." Collateral damage The overseas automakers, who between them produce more than 3 million vehicles a year at U.S. plants, all worry their production would be hurt if one of the U.S. automakers went under. That's because a Big Three failure would likely lead to widespread bankruptcies in the auto parts supplier industry. Erich Merkle, lead auto analyst with the consulting firm Crowe Horwath LLP, said there is much overlap between the automakers' suppliers. Since most parts in an automobile have only a single supplier producing them, the disruptions in production will be severe and prolonged. "The U.S. economy would be in shambles," Merkle said. "The robust U.S. economy that Toyota and the others depend on would suddenly not be as lucrative." The overseas automakers agree that the last thing they need is for the U.S. economy to slow further. The U.S. is the largest market for Toyota, Honda and Nissan (NSANY). All are expected to report lower U.S. sales this year for the first time ever. Enter new competition The final concern for the overseas automakers is a longer-term problem. The failure of a U.S. automaker could open the door for a Chinese or Indian automaker to buy up the assets of the failed company and create a new low-cost competitor in the U.S. "You could open the door for foreign companies to buy distressed assets at rock-bottom prices," he said. He pointed to India's Tata (TTM) and China's Geely as two automakers in the developing world that are already on record as being interested in expanding into western markets like the United States. http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/15/news/companies/overseas_automakers/?postversion=- 2008121517 Now what do those southern senators want? I suspect that their home state subsidized/lured transplants will set them straight.
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My youngest was playing. Its such good entertainment. In any case. Ted Nugent, I hear resides in near Waco Texas. I'm sure you have all heard of "The Motor City Mad Man". I've always liked his music. His son was out on the court playing too, playing one on one my son, defense or offense anyway. Anyone know how Ted feel about the UAW and the Big Three? The Strangehold brought it to mind. |
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good for you to be there when your son is playing. Dunno what the Motor City Madman thinks about the UAW and the Big Three. Someone ask him and post it in here. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 25, 2008 7:23 pm) If you think about it, you'll soon understand the logic behind Toyota's position. A post-bankruptcy GM, with its legacy costs under control & under the leadership of a new & more aggressive management team, will be a much more fearsome competitor. Do you think that Toyota wants that? Of course not. Toyota likes GM just the way it is now: bloated & slow to respond. Toyota finds the current competitive landscape very much to its liking & doesn't want radical, meaningful change, which can only come from bankruptcy reorganization.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm) Your absolutely right. Besides who else can Toyota use to do the innovations for their next generation of cars? |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 25, 2008 3:32 pm)
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