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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 23, 2008 9:59 pm) You suggested a lot of changes for the US as a whole. Lokki wanted to know what to do about GM and the UAW. Would your plan include changes at the D3 or do you think the US just trying to fix the entire economy is going to be enough to save the D3? |
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DD writes:So my solution is in the short term to get that money thats taking up space to work for a stimulus. What money? And who would it help? Bush has taken $17.4 billion of the money Congress set aside to protect US from bank failures. Are you referring to the money the banks are supposed to keep in reserve? DD writes:Bailout or no bailout, that was a duplicate plant and was in the master plan all along. These are UAW people and human just like you and I. If that bailout money is not going to protect jobs like those lost yesterday. Why bother giving GM money? We know they are building 1000s of vehicles that will just sit to accommodate UAW contracts. It is the work rules that need to be wiped out before GM can run a competitive business. I have not heard the UAW brass addressing these issues. Getting rid of the jobs bank is a good start though insignificant. That is an issue that grinds on all Americans that have lost a job and depend on regular unemployment checks to get by. If all the unemployed were given the same money extended to out of work UAW members it would be about $80 billion per month. They are finding with the $450 per week paid in CA that many people are not bothering to look hard for work. Paying people not to work is a disincentive to try harder. DD writes:The article describes them as good hard workers and far from the lazy/indolent stereotype you have labeled them as. There are many first hand reports of UAW workers refusing to do jobs out of their classification. Going on strike for very questionable reasons. Sitting around in rubber rooms reading comics and watching cartoons. Chastising new hires to slow down so they do not make the lazy old timers look bad. I could go on. The UAW is not a good example of what a Union should look like. It looks a lot like some of the Unions in Alaska that I worked with in the early 1970s. Many Unions have gotten by that featherbedding entitlement mentality that still exists in the UAW. Now it is time to pay the piper. The UAW along with the lousy management at GM is on the brink of disaster. The rest of US do not have $38 billion a year to keep them afloat. If the UAW members are your brothers and sisters, send them half your paycheck each month. I have family of my own that I help support. DD:UAW workers build the Hummer and is proud to support our troops. I have never said to get rid of the Hummer group. In fact the military is probably one of the few entities in this country that can afford to pay the UAW wages required to build those vehicles. AM General that produces the Humvee and the Hummers for GM is not in any way owned by General Motors. GM contracts with AM General to build the H2 and H3. The H1 is no longer built. I would say those UAW jobs are safe for now. Until the military is gutted by a softer, kinder US government.
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Replying to: tlong (Dec 23, 2008 11:12 pm) I'm looking at this as a macro, the GM/UAW/D3 being a part and or subset of the entire global economy. I look for a rebirth/fresh start to get it together. The auto industry will morph into something in the future. GM or the UAW being a part of those changes is anyones guess. Many of these companies don't want any negative news, because in the end Wall Street is but a giant rumor mill. One can see that Ford wants be excluded from the "Bail-Out". However, if this becomes a long and protracted downturn in the economic cycle, which is long over due, Ford/Toyota/Honda and all the players will be begging for cash infusions, reducing costs, and taking measures to survive. The price at the pump is directly correlated to the contraction in use of gas. If we get the world economy going again the demand will like it was prior and the price will go to where supply meets demand. So its silly to build Hummer's and Tundra's for consumers who can get the same task, transportation/hauling stuff, in something more efficient. In any case these plants at best would serve a small market segment. The decision makers in the auto companies opted to take ill advised risks and put shareholder value on the back burner. Gov't could have seen this coming and started to do a gradual increase on gas tax to deter demand, encourage building more efficient autos, discourage dependence, and foster innovation in the new technologies. There is plenty of blame to go around, those who saved their acorns for the rainy day should and will be the winners. It only a question of how long and if they make ill advised business in the future, they should liquidate. Greed drove this as it did in the investment banking. China and India too were looking to become players, and may at some future date. So has anyone here driven a Tata? Collapse is a great book, written by Jarred Diamond. Its all about what a global economy might entail in a round about way. As the author looks at many civilizations and explains why some didn't make it, while others did. He has two excellent books.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 23, 2008 7:57 pm) It was head-and-shoulders above the competition from GM and Chrysler (Celebrity/Ciera/6000/Century and the K-cars). Let's face it, a 1986 Taurus in good condition would not look out of place in traffic today, while a Chevrolet Celebrity of the same year looks very outdated. It was no reliability champ, but neither were the GM and Chrysler competition. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 24, 2008 7:24 am) So its silly to build Hummer's and Tundra's for consumers who can get the same task, transportation/hauling stuff, in something more efficient. While I agree with that statement. I have found it difficult to buy anything that will get the job done using much less gas than a Tundra. My 1999 Ranger Flex Fuel V6 is an absolute gas hog. I only fill about once every 6 weeks and am lucky when I average 15 MPG. Of course that CANNOT be blamed on the UAW. That is fully controlled by the 25% tariff on imported PU Trucks. A gift from LBJ to the UAW and the Big 3 that could not compete against VW and their little 50 MPG VW Rabbit PU truck. So VW built a plant in the USA and that was the beginning of foreign auto makers building factories in the USA. The Big 3 with their overbearing UAW mill stone around their necks, have steadily lost market share since. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 24, 2008 6:51 am) Colleges and universities are looking at 529 college saving plans, where money is being parked/invested for educational purposes, for one example. They are making these institutions of higher education more Spa's to attract this money/students. These are some of the most intelligent people when it comes to investing. Unfortunately they have been getting sub par performance in the market. The time lag is on their side, if say they invested it in real estate. I'm talking people like you and I who have CD's and would jump at the chance of getting a GREAT DEAL. Not credit or gov't money which is the same as credit. Black Friday is always going to get a waiting line. There is always going to be people, with cash, sitting on the sidelines waiting for a moment like this. I'm just meeting their price sooner, rather than later. DD writes:Bailout or no bailout, that was a duplicate plant and was in the master plan all along. These are UAW people and human just like you and I. At half price, I'll take another CTS and I'll also need a small truck to haul stuff. Your right (leave govt out of it) and the consumer, given the opportunity can reduce the inventory and thereby give the company the capital infusion to restructure to current market conditions. Add that their wages, medical cost, suppliers parts, and all other debt is now only half. They get that second chance to get it together. DD writes:The article describes them as good hard workers and far from the lazy/indolent stereotype you have labeled them as. People are people and sometimes they may have other things going on in their lives. Death of a loved one, divorce, medical issues, and other human conditions cause many otherwise good workers to have a bad period during their work years. This is not just a UAW or union issue. There could be a many other reasons why worker is not to your standards. A smart man could get/inspire that employee to do wonders. Reminds me of Huck Finn getting his peers to paint that fence. DD:UAW workers build the Hummer and is proud to support our troops. LTV bought the Jeep/American Motors part of AMC, (see if that is cited anywhere on the net) while it was a conglomerate. Later it divested it, in its ill fated attempt to get straddle the PGBC with its steel workers pensions. Its American as apple pie. I've been in the real thing and they lack the creature comforts (leg room mostly). They can also out climb anything out there, inflate/deflate their tires (on the move), and many more tricks. The H3 is reasonable in that it has a five cylinder and gets about 20 mpg. I can only agree that its an expensive toy for grown boys. If our troops need it, they should get it.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 24, 2008 8:23 am) Just as Rocky was bragging his brother bought an Impala for 30% less than MSRP. How does that help the UAW worker? Only cars sold above invoice are helping the B3. Granted no one in their right mind would buy a B3 car above invoice right now. So it is still a dilemma that GM especially has to resolve. If you do not cut the UAW wage and benefits or the retiree health benefits, what do you cut? GM has already cut content that has produced substandard vehicles. Cutting Wagoner's pay to a buck is totally symbolic. Cut wages and benefits to the line workers by 20% and let the retirees pay their own medical, and GM starts to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Not before BIG cuts in wages & benefits occur. That goes for all suppliers as well. And promises for next year or the year after are worthless. GM may not be here 6 months from now.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 23, 2008 7:57 pm)
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 23, 2008 8:28 pm) |
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 24, 2008 9:18 am) From what I've heard, a lot of police departments chose to do that, rather than go with a Crown Vic. I've always thought it was interesting that, of the Big Three downsized big police cars, the one that was generally viewed as the weakest, the Crown Vic, would be the last man standing. Back in 1979-81, the Newport/St. Regis/Gran Fury was widely regarded as the best police car, which was ironic because in civilian form, they were usually ranked well below their Ford and GM rivals. The Impala/Caprice weren't so hot initially, but were more competitive once the Mopar 360 was no longer offered in police cars and the 318-4bbl was the top offering. By 1989, the Caprice was finally starting to surpass the performance levels of a 1979 St. Regis or Newport. And then when the 1994-96 LT1 models hit the streets, they were really a force to be reckoned with. Even to this day, I don't think the Crown Vic is that much of a performer, as a police car. I think the V-6 Charger and Impala are about the same, performance-wise, while the Hemi Charger would blow it away. Although the Crown Vic is bigger and sturdier, so it could probably stand up to much more abuse. The Intrepid was used briefly as a police car as well, and was a good performer in all respects except one. Braking. They actually had a habit of bursting into flames if you were hard enough on them!  There's a 2004 Intrepid copcar for sale at a local used car lot that I've been keeping my eye on. But maybe I'd better leave it alone!
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