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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16667 messages, Last post on Nov 10, 2009 at 3:38 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 14, 2008 9:34 am) Today, he is unemployed, living in my girlfriend's mother's house, his fancy house in CT has been foreclosed, he's in massive credit card debt, his wife is leaving him, his kids won't talk to him, his E-Class Mercedes was repossessed, he has to take the bus or get a ride in my hooptie, is dirt poor and living on our charity, and our patience with him is wearing thinner than an apple peel. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 14, 2008 9:34 am) On the flip side, I remember an article about several years ago, maybe like 10, about a black fork lift driver for Ford that was in his 70's making $100k with the o/t he worked. I think it may have either been in WSJ or Detroit Free Press, I can't remember. He drove a 10 year old Escort, put all of his kids through college and donated nearly $1million to some black college, even though he himself didn't graduate from high school. It was a great article. Here, this is not the original article I remember, but it describes this very generous and I think incredible person. forklift driver I'm starting to believe they like to sensationalize news in order to sell newspapers. No doubt about that |
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"A 50% reduction in the Big Three's domestic operations, for instance, would result in 2.5 million people losing their jobs, according to the Center for Automotive Research"... On its face, this may be true, but at the rate folks are deserting the Big 3 (for quality, UAW or management, I don't care why) for what they believe to be the "better" imports, those same jobs will be lost any way... On the flip side, all that does is try and justify giving the money to the Big 3 simply to maintain the FACADE of a manufacturing company, who will continue to make a product that no one wants to buy...so, as millions of cars line up on dealers lots that no one wants, how soon before we simply tow the new cars to a landfill (the City of Detroit might as well be used, it has been a toxic waste dump since 1980 when I was there) and let them continue to keep the lines running so people look like they are working?????????????? It has to end sometime...they need to file Ch 11 and dump the UAW...the cost of their cars will probably drop by 25% overnight, and with all the illegals making the cars, they at least have a work ethic, and could be trained to make a better product in about a week... The "entitlement" attitude of the average auto worker would put the average sports hero to shame...they think they can do no wrong, when they are about to be jettisoned to find out they will do nothing anymore... If ever a lump labor force needed elimination, it is the UAW... The auto industry will survive just fine, but the union must go...it is kinda like a cruise ship...just get rid of the people drilling the holes in the hull, and the remainder of the ship will do just fine...the UAW is the "hole driller"... |
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 14, 2008 10:38 am) I sort of picture the UAW workers as the grunts down in the engine room who keep pumping oil on all the camshafts. All of a sudden they wonder what the big grinding noise coming from topside is, while the ship slows down. Guess who's in the life rafts with the parachutes? 
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 14, 2008 11:01 am) LOL, well not really. I would add the UAW in the radio room frantically sending SOS messages on the Marconi telegraph until overtaken by incoming seawater.
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 11:14 am) And just as he was trying to leave the office, the harbormaster has to go bail out his dingy and try to find his oars. 
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It's true, the ship is sinking but the boys in the engine room had nothing to do with the problems that are making the ship sink. That's their story and they're sticking to it. Evil, lazy and corrupt management. Got it. People who would sell out their own country to save a buck by buying foreign cars. Got it. However, the ship IS sinking. We all agree on that. The question now is are the boys in the engine room willing to do anything to help the ship from sinking or are they just reminding the Engine Room Chief to make sure that they get paid on time, while waiting for someone to rescue them? I have yet to see anything from the UAW supporters that suggests that they are willing to lift a finger to save themselves. The rest of us owe it to them "because the UAW created the middle class 100 years ago." |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 14, 2008 9:34 am) |
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The 1944 GI Bill gave America a 40% college graduate rate. The other competing nations were 25% at most. So this is more or less agreed to as the reason we have enjoyed the highest standard of living. Number one in innovation/new processes in technology. So what did those other 60% of Americans do? They had jobs created by our superior system. UAW or not the jobs were out there. To some extent the college graduate was somewhat dependent on the 60% of workers. Supervisors, managers, and the supporting cast required lead the manufacturing operations create a codependency. Today in the global economy we are behind in producing college graduates as compared to other nations. The high cost of education and other concerns have eroded the worlds best system. One would ask why other nations don't have this situations? The safety net or lack of provided by our nation is cited as the number one reason. National health in many countries has produced a higher college graduate rate. It stands to reason if someone doesn't have to enter the work force to obtain health insurance, they might stay in the schools longer and may even graduate. This would concern me more than if America loses its auto making industry. With long term implications and bleak prospects for those who fail to secure college educations. Will America stand for being a second rate nation? This is happening and for those who detest unions, this will cause hardship, which in turn social unrest, and the rebirth of the union. More or less the same logic used in the political arena as the pendulum has swung the other way just as far as it had to the right. In any case thats my thinking and welcome any thoughts. I've often enjoyed economics of any given situation. While I was burned during the dot com bust, I did see opportunity there after and exploited it. Rewarded beyond my wildest expectation. I'm looking at a rather bleak situation and many folks out there with few investment options. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 14, 2008 9:06 am) I suspect we almost all agree that we would want the US to be able to compete on a world scale and not allow anybody else to be the world class auto manufacturer. We just see different ways to achieve that. One way is protectionism and propping up industries in this country that frankly, aren't even near world-class today. Will incremental changes be enough to make the huge paradigm shift that needs to occur? Another way is to allow big pain now with the hope that we can emerge from the ashes with a new sense of strong competitiveness - we will be the BEST, we will be COMPETITIVE. To do that we need to be flexible and open-minded. Do you think incremental changes with the way the GM management has been operating and the way the UAW behaves with their work rules and 2200 page contracts are really going to provide the massive change that we need to get to that vision? It's taken 30 years since the Vega, 20 years since the Citation and Chevette, and we are not nearly there. No evidence that the current formula is working. I must say that with an outsider in charge of Ford (Mulally), there are signs that they are doing some impressive things. He has been pruning other models and brands from Ford, and the 2010 Fusion is looking very impressive based upon the Edmunds first look. I wish GM would get with it without it being forced down their throats by their own insolvency.
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