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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: rexy44 (Dec 13, 2008 8:43 pm) Welcome to the Forum it is good to have first hand accounts. How long was the wage progression when you went to work in the UAW? I am sure we all have stories of how difficult our job was or is. I can recall splicing cable in the Arctic at -40 degrees with wind chill at minus 115 degrees. And the oil company bosses hanging around in their heated PU trucks wanting to know how long it was going to take to get them back in service. We were outside NO heated tent. I also gave up raises to have a better pension. Then after 20 some years of paying in we were told that not only the age requirement for retirement went from 45 to 57 years old, we were not going to get paid health care after we retired. The truth is the retirement fund would be broke if we had pushed for that benefit. Just the same as GM is broke trying to keep up an unsustainable health care program for the retirees. So when I retired I paid my own health care until I was eligible for Medicare. Just part of life. I worked the last 25 years in the Arctic on Ice 8 months of the year. My schedule was 21 days straight 10+ hours per day. Our outside work was mostly in the winter when some trainee front end loader operator would cut one of our telephone cables. I would not like your job and you would probably not like mine. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 13, 2008 9:19 pm) Here in Tokyo, I watched today a couple of very popular televised debates on a Japanese version of the same theme ("should government provide some kind of safety net for workers that are being made redundant"). It is fast becoming a debate between protectionist/socialists vs. free market capitalists - and belonging to the latter group, I am alarmed to see that the former is now citing US as the example why their case is stronger ("If it is not working out in the US, then why should Japan continue to push for that?"). I worry that large scale bail outs continuing in the US are going to trigger similar moves in other large economies, and we know where that is going to lead us - an unraveling of the global free markets, leading to a lower standard of living all around.... It would be very unfortunate if that is how it turned out to be. While there might be a lot of different opinions about what ails the B3, there cannot be any doubt that competition provided the consumer the best choice - everyone today drives a much better car because of that. Not sure if we will be able to say this five years from now.....
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Dec 13, 2008 5:38 pm)
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Replying to: manegi (Dec 14, 2008 12:39 am) Customer walks onto Toyota dealer's lot. Salesman, "Yo, whatchoo lookin' at? You gonna buy a car or not, deadbeat?" Customer, "Uh...I was just looking." Salesman, "Yo, loser! Why don'tcha just take a picture it'll longer! Why you wastin' my time?" Customer, "Well, I was thinking of trading in my 6 year-old H...." Salesman, "Gimme dem keys to dat hooptie!" (Tosses keys onto roof of dealership) Now you ain't goin' nowhere sucker!" Customer, "That does it! I'm calling the police!" Salesman, "What cops, fool? There ain't no tax base left to pay the po-po! You is stuck, man!" Customer, "Oh, man! Uh, what's the MSRP on the base Corolla?" Saleman, "The stripper Corolla in 'Flat Puke Green' primer is $45,000! You get no radio, no heater, no turn signals, but since you're such a great guy, I'll throw in a reverse gear for only $2,500!" Customer, "Uh, I think I'll catch the bus and look elsewhere!" Salesman, "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout? There ain't no buses left 'round here no more! No money to pay the drivers, fool! And don't be thinkin' 'bout going to Honda, Nissan, or Hyundai! We all part of the same dealership group. That Fit is $47,000, the Versa is $50K, and the Elantra is $46 grand! This strippo Corolla is your best deal! Take or or leave it!" Customer, "What about financing?" Salesman, "We got an easy payment plan! You pay me $850 a month for eight years at 25% or I break your face! You can't argue, dere's no easier payment plan den dat!"
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 5:56 am) Not me! I can't wait until they work the bugs out of the Genesis. For the price, I'm in one before any Caddy (or Lexus or Acura) because it looks better to ME! That is, until the new Caddies are built for a decent price after the cataclysm. As the housing market prices adjust, watch the auto market. Perfect opportunity for Chinese auto concerns to make their mark. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: chikoo (Dec 13, 2008 5:15 pm) Please, get real. Bell Helicopter, Boeing, and many other salaried are represented by the UAW or other unions. To stereotype UAW membership as an uneducated is myth. I hold two under graduate degrees (math and physics) in science and an MBA. I also have a friend in Janesville's, Wisconsin, who later on in life attained an electrical engineering degree and is just as happy working in the factory. While most of the rank and file may make $100,000 (or close to) a year if they opt to work overtime. This is another misconception, its got to be from the mouth of a idiot. Please tell me where you heard that? If a firm making widgets decided to offer overtime and not hire additional workers. They do so to save money. They don't give out addition vacation/personal time for overtime hours worker. Neither do they pay the retirement, holidays, or medical insurance that hiring that additional employee would entail. The intelligent class of people create the business/work. The labor class only provides the means to get the work done. To even think that they deserve more than the people who are responsible for creating work for them is utterly delusional. Education is an asset and most certainly will get you more out of life. The great minds, those who can do the math and science, aren't just a matter of going to school. Lets face it, most under graduates change majors after one semester/year in college. This is where the business and other schools within the universities get their students. Rare is a student like my oldest, who enters college wanting to be a chemical engineer and leaves a chemical engineer. I would estimate 5% to 10% have this God given gift. My wife explained this to me when I just couldn't understand why my youngest was struggling with algebra. In having said that. Its these engineers/science folks and not the 70% of business majors who create IPOD, cell phones, flat screens, and all those products that have made life a bit more tolerable. I would go further in stating that those who pay tuition, play sports, and do other things a universities are there to support the small select group gifted few with brilliant minds. There is a place for the everyone in a society. Each can make a contribution. If you want to envy someone, I might suggest a brilliant mind as opposed to someone whom has profited from the ideas of the intellectual class. Because my friend, test don't lie, and on that test the mind is exposed. By the way, I paid no tuition, books, room, or board for my oldest. They even kicked in a lap top on the first year. Why do they complain about the high cost of higher education? Remember ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal. |
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 6:55 am) |
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 6:55 am) After burning through the 1st installment with nothing to show for it, the domestic car makers demand tens of billions in additional "loans", saying that if they're not allowed to "borrow" more, they can't possibly repay what they "borrowed" previously. They get everything they ask for but go down the tubes anyway because they can't control labor costs while building affordable, attractive cars. The government, broke & with no hope of recovering this money from the now-defunct Big 3, raises income & excise taxes through the roof. Taxpayers, their disposable income a fraction of what it once was, stop buying new cars. Soon, the import dealerships go out of business. Only used-car lots survive, but not for long. State & local governments, starved for revenue because they're no longer collecting taxes on new car sales, hike income & property taxes. Now taxpayers can't even afford to buy used cars, & soon the used-car lots fold up. But in every cloud there's a silver lining, & a vibrant new industry emerges: used shoe stores, which cater to taxpayers who can't afford cars & must now walk everywhere. The largest of the used shoe retailers is...Lemko's Quality Footware Emporium, which offers a full range of certified pre-owned shoes as well as easy financing. ("No Credit? No Problem! We Won't Let You Leave Barefoot!") Lemko, now the wealthiest man in the greater Philly metro area, can finally afford to indulge his childhood fantasy. He imports a glossy black Mercedes Benz S600 V-12 & moves into a mansion once occupied by a hedge fund manager. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 13, 2008 5:30 pm)
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 14, 2008 7:11 am) True, but but the business/sales people are needed to create the market/value of the product produced. I know lots of engineers and no doubt most are very smart and gifted, but several I know have the personality of a pencil. The IPOD's success has more to do with Apples marketing machine than engineering of the product. I've worked with many small manufacturing companies where the top sales people are compensated much higher than the top engineers. Congrats on the accomplishments of your eldest son. While I was a management major and my wife Pharmacy (very similar studies to Chem E with an extra 2 years), we attended a school that has a huge engineering program and we hung around many engineering students. Chem E is definitely a demanding program and anyone who earns a Chem E degree is not lacking in intelligence. Yeah, math is not a universal ability. I always struggled with math. My wife breezed through it. In college, she would keep taking calculus classes as electives because she was good enough at it to not go to class and still able to ace the exam. She did that with 3 or 4 classes in calculus. It made me sick that she would attend the first week of class, get the lesson plan for the semester, and only show up on the days of tests and the final exam and get A's. I OTOH, would attend every class, go to study sessions and squeak by with a C. So far it looks like our daughters got her brains. Thank god.
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