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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16716 messages, Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 3:23 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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If ever there has beena time that our Senators are failing us, it is now! I would agree none of us know all there is to know about the reasons the auto makers are in the circumstances they are in. I do know ALL auto makers are having a very hard time, not just the US auto makers. If banks don't loan money, it makes no difference how inexpensive the vehicle is or how much of a discount the car has, it won't sell if no one will finance it! The people who are are the core of all this financial mess, the blame belongs at the feet of dishonest loan brokers who lied to get loans for people who could not afford a house loan. Greed is the very reason behind all of this crap. The oil companies have their share of the blame as well. As just ordinary everyday typical working people we are headed for a Titanic crash if something is not done real soon. Perhaps, this might become far deeper then the depression of 1931. I do not know if the adults of today have what it takes to live without credit cards, and electronic games, eating out, and having "fun". We have been duped into thinking happiness is what really counts. I am afraid a lot of us are about to become very unhappy, and learn what is to skimp and reuse something until it wares out, and yes save up until we have the money to buy what we want. Wow, kinda like the Waltons on TV. These are just my thoughts. farout
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 11, 2008 8:51 am) I think in that case the bigger issue should be "living on OT". Here, with FIOS going strong in RI, an installer could pull in that kind of money but they'd have to work 10, 12 hrs a day for 6 or 7 days a wk. That's a LOT of OT!!! ANYBODY living a lifestyle based on 50% MORE than their base salary is asking for big trouble.
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Replying to: farout (Dec 11, 2008 3:14 pm)
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 11, 2008 4:18 pm) Check to make sure yours is FDIC insured. Not all money market accounts are insured. Something about that came out when they were discussing the $700b bailout. Better safe than sad.
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 11, 2008 9:17 am) http://seekingalpha.com/article/84124-iphone-can-replace-laptops-for-majority-of- -computer-users
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 11, 2008 4:59 pm) I wonder, if we let them go bankrupt, is it just the tip of an even BIGGER iceberg than what we are talking about??? |
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 11, 2008 12:15 pm) The main purpose of a "Chapter 11" bankruptcy is to relieve a debtor of debts, thereby providing an opportunity for a fresh start. This is different from a "Chapter 7"bankruptcy, which involves the company shutting down its operations and the company's assetsbeing sold off. In each of the following questions, when the term "bankruptcy" is used, we are referring to a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy could also include selling off some or all of the Company's assets. It does allow temporary relief in all areas in the hopes of restoring normal business conditions. Besides, every creditor can and will kick in their legal/accounting fees to the total. Items such as wages, salaries, and sick leave are considered as normal administrativeexpenses while in bankruptcy. The bankruptcy laws assure that employees will continue to bepaid for their services during the reorganization. In addition, certain "pre-petition claims," for items like unpaid medical expenses and other benefits are given priority status in bankruptcy,meaning that they are paid before any other general unsecured claims. However, under the law,the maximum amount of such claims that can be give priority status is limited to $4,650 per employee. A company can ask for modification and or voiding of a labor contract. Section 1113 of the bankruptcy code lays out the rules an employer must follow if it decides to seek to reject labor contracts. It ensures that negotiations between a Chapter 11 employer and a union occur before the company asks the court to allow it to reject a collective bargaining agreement. It lays out the stringent standard by which a bankruptcy court must evaluate an application to reject an agreement, and it establishes a time frame in which the court may make its determination.A collective bargaining agreement remains in effect, and the collective bargaining process continues, after the filing of a bankruptcy petition "unless and until" the company complies with the provisions of Section 1113. Accordingly, before the court may authorize the rejection of acollective bargaining agreement the company must prove to the court that the following nine (9)requirements have been met: 1. The company must have made a proposal to the union. 2. The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available atthe time of the proposal. 3. The modifications must be necessary to permit reorganization. 4. The modifications must provide that all affected parties are treated fairly and equitably. 5. The company must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary toevaluate the proposal. 6. The company must have met with the collective bargaining representative at reasonabletimes subsequent to making the proposal. 7. The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith. 8. The union must have refused to accept the proposal without good cause.9. The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.If the court agrees that the company has met these conditions, it may authorize the rejection ofthe Collective Bargaining Agreement.Overview of the 1113 Process An explanation of the sections of the bankruptcy code that allows temporarymodifications and permanent rejection of collective bargaining agreements is outlinedbelow.1113 (c) -Total RejectionSection 1113 (c), Chapter 11, of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. Section 1113 (c) allows acompany to ask a judge to reject, terminate, labor contracts.Section 1113 (c) states:The court shall approve an application for rejection of a collective bargaining I agreementonly if the court finds that - (1) the trustee has, prior to the hearing, made a proposal that fulfills therequirements of subsection (b)(I); (2) the authorized representative of the employees has refused to accept suchproposal without good cause; and (3) the balance of the equities clearly favors rejection of such agreement.By law, a hearing on the 1113(c) petition is to be held within fourteen days from the dateof the filing of the application. However, the court may extend the time for the commencement of such hearing for a period not exceeding seven days.The court is required to rule on the application for rejection within thirty days after thedate of the commencement of the hearing. However, the court may extend the time formaking a ruling for an additional period as the company and the Union may agree to. Ifthe court does not rule on the application within thirty days after the date of thecommencement of the hearing, or within such additional time as the company and union may agree to, the company may terminate or alter any provisions of the collective bargaining agreement pending the ruling of the court.In 1113 (c) applications the judge has only two options when making a ruling; reject the company's application and leave the labor contract intact, or approve the application and terminate the labor agreement completely. The judge cannot impose permanent contract terms on the parties. Its a bit longer and deal with defined pensions, bargaining in good faith, if and when the agreement is there is a termination of a collective bargaining agreement. |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Dec 11, 2008 5:17 pm) I wonder, if we let them go bankrupt, is it just the tip of an even BIGGER iceberg than what we are talking about??? Depends who you think is more correct. 3 think tank type groups or the Republicans down south with the competitors plants. Heck, even the competitors down south are scared of one of the big 2 going under. There is a rep (Mike Stanton, Association of International Automobile Manufacturers) for all the import brands and I saw him on a show and he said all the imports companies are very concerned and feel we cannot let any of the big 3 go under because it will take the suppliers out with them. But heck, he is in the industry too so he must be biased. http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/show/1242?play |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 11, 2008 6:10 pm)
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 11, 2008 6:10 pm) You know the answer to that prediction. Regards, OW |
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