Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 06, 2008 9:36 pm) What about the company that is not making enough to pay that buck an hour more? I watched the culinary workers in the oilfields lose 30% of their wages when the price of oil went in the toilet. The IBEW electricians lost 20% during that same time in Alaska. When has the UAW ever given back wages when the Big 3 were losing money. I am not referring to this last lame agreement where they dumped the losses on new hires and kept the gold for the senior employees. When GM lost $72 billion over the last 4 years and $38 b just last year. Did the workers volunteer to take a $5 per hour cut in pay? The biggest UAW rip-off is tacking retiree benefits to the members wage package. IF the UAW was looking out for the workers they would have insisted and rightly so that the Big 3 have a pension plan that is fully funded. So in the event of one or more automakers going broke those retirees would be covered. That is what you have a Union for. To protect your interest on the job and after you retire. I get my check from a Teamster Trust that has current and past Union members on the board. They look out for me and my retirement. I would hate to think that lame brained bunch I worked for was holding control of my retirement. GM and the UAW do not deserve to survive. They have been inept at doing what they are supposed to do for decades. And now the poor tax payer and future tax payers will be burdened with the mess they have made. |
|
|
Replying to: lokki (Dec 06, 2008 9:55 pm)
|
|
|
Replying to: lokki (Dec 06, 2008 8:22 pm) Thank you for setting the record straight on tariffs. That has been the hue and cry of the UAW whiners. They want a level playing field. Well then we need to drop our 25% tariff on trucks and make it level. Japan is far and away the biggest importer of cars to the USA. Yet our automakers have not been able to keep up. Admitting defeat is not an American tradition. The UAW would like the deck stacked against any competition so they can keep on featherbedding as they have for the past 40 or more years. The more I learn about that lame Union the more I agree with the rest of the US workforce. They do not deserve to survive. As a pensioner, I feel for those retirees. I do believe they had the obligation to see that they were in good financial condition when they were making more money than 99% of the manufacturing workforce in America. If GM fails and they lose part of their pension and benefits they may have to join millions of other retirees in low paying part time jobs, like greeters at WalMart. Two of my neighbors that are retired are looking for work due to the 401K crash. Another already went back to his part time yard maintenance business that he retired from 10 years ago. Two of them are past 70. Nothing is 100% for sure...
|
|
|
when would they finally realize they were killing the master that feeds them? And the answer is...almost never. It comes down to the next day or so for them to decide to give concessions. I'd rather have 20 more years at $15 an hour than only 3 more weeks of a better paying job, but that is not how the UAW think. To give up jobs bank is to give up nothing. That does nothing to bring health to GM. They actually think that they could consider this as a major concession. I think it needs to be the tip of the iceberg. I hope the UAW take a 30% wage cut and extract 2000 pages from their union contract. The alternative of bankruptcy and then Asia owning everything is what I call colonization. We have a $15 an hour job. Japan is busy designing a robot to replace us. Many parts suppliers that send parts to the car assembly plant are Japan owned. Record profit growth at our company from which a tiny bit is given to us and the rest stays in Japan. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: tlong (Dec 06, 2008 4:25 pm) This is good business to build plant here by Toyota/Honda. They are closer to the consumer, we buy most of the cars produced, and they save big time on labor. So why don't they just shut down the plants in Japan which have wages much higher than here in America? Almost a third of the cost of an import is put back into Japan to run such things as health care and other govt expenses. By their own accounts they have the highest paid employees in Japan. By custom they pay an extra months wages in the form of bonus aka the 13th month. They know they lack natural resources and look to bring in industries to support the mother land. They seek every advantage and know the India, Korea, China, and many others are out there wanting these same industries. We have all but given up textiles, steel, machine tools, and now autos are at stake. Is it just envy that drives our nation? Can we not see that unions are the folks who brought us weekends (to both union and non union) along with other countless, taken for granted, benefits through out the years? If that union job goes away we all lose the multiplier effect of those wages spent in the economy. Therefore, we lose more than one union job, we lose countless other jobs as demand decreases. Not to mention that most big corporations calculate pay by the prevailing wage in a given area. Hence, a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area. Certainly you can believe that these benevolent corporation would pay any more than they had to. They only need to be competitive enough to attract that next best job candidate from their competition. Its in our nations history, that men worked in the steel mills. 364 days a year, for 12 hours a day. A tater was the common lunch, if he fell into the molten steel vat, the family had no safety net, they more than likely went to the almshouse if they lost their bread winner. Somebody fought the battle to end this madness. For a man to work so hard for life's bare needs (food, shelter, and clothes) is today considered less than civilized. If it not for organized labor, there would be no consumerism. Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
|
|
|
|
|
This is the big issue in a nutshell, A. if the big 3 fails now it will really hurt the US and obliterate Michigan. B. If you save the big 3 you will be saving and institution that needs to be replaced by more efficient UNION FREE auto makers. - LOOK TO TUCKER. Preston Tucker made an automobile, back in the 1940s, that was innovative even by today's technological standards. The big three bribed congressmen and the SEC to shut him down (see capture theory and "Preston Tucker: A Generation Too Late", by Gregory Rehmke). In his farewell speech, Preston warns the US public that some day the Germans and the Japanese will crush the American Auto makers by building a better mousetrap (read: car). Well the chickens have come home to roost, and the big three lost their IMMENSE advantage and are now going broke, and because we eliminated the true bad asses (like Tucker and all the other innovators who JUMPED out or NEVER went in the auto making business after watching Tucker get hauled in front of the SEC and congressional committees) are not around to take up the vacuum/slack. Remeber the big three are so inept that even though Japan and Germany and Korea came out of utter desimation and destruction they were still able to overcome the US/victors industrial might. |
|
|
|
|
man, you've forgotten all the hard work of many who have gone to great lengths to explain that the UAW is the anti-thesis of a real union. The UAW has fallen in to the vat of self-importance, huge, ego, feed-me, feed-me, feed-me, I make the cars around here. The Jobs Bank is the best way I have found to explain the excesses of the UAW and GM. Raspberry jelly donuts, warmed just how I like it, and some fresh Starbuck's French Roast coffee to go along with that. They are going down, along with GM and Chrysler. A bailout only prolongs their misery they share with the U.S. They have bunkrupted GM. That fact is painfully obvious if one reads this column for months on end, like iluvmysephia1 does. I see it plainly and clearly. It's over.
|
|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 07, 2008 7:52 am) And it may be the Unions that destroy our automakers as well. You cannot have one without the other. No sales, no profit, no job, only jobs bank until the coffers run dry. Guess what the coffers are dry and GM has borrowed $66 billion to keep afloat. I say when they payoff their current debt we loan them some more... a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area. That may be as long as there is a company left in any given area. Ever hear the term boom town? Well just think of Detroit as a boom town. The boom is over and time to move on. That my friend is history. And it will be repeated over and over. The Big 3 went through similar trials in the late 1970s due to oil shortages. They did not learn a thing. Nor did the worker bees. They just follow the queen fat dumb and happy. Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class. They get bought by the welfare people on the South Side of Chicago. I have not bought a pair of shoes made in China. I am hoping my stock of US made shoes and sandals will last the rest of my life. Some have holes in the soles. If you own a pair of shoes made in China you have no room to complain. Same goes for all those UAW workers that shop at WalMart.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 06, 2008 8:07 pm) Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. failed to mention that these big banks who swallowed the small banks would also be allowed to write of the little banks debt. The financial world was fixated on Capitol Hill as Congress battled over the Bush administration's request for a $700 billion bailout of the banking industry. In the midst of this late-September drama, the Treasury Department issued a five-sentence notice that attracted almost no public attention. But corporate tax lawyers quickly realized the enormous implications of the document: Administration officials had just given American banks a windfall of as much as $140 billion. The sweeping change to two decades of tax policy escaped the notice of lawmakers for several days, as they remained consumed with the controversial bailout bill. When they found out, some legislators were furious. Some congressional staff members have privately concluded that the notice was illegal. But they have worried that saying so publicly could unravel several recent bank mergers made possible by the change and send the economy into an even deeper tailspin. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902155.- html |
|
|
Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 07, 2008 7:52 am) Sure, I can see it. I can also see that unions have morphed into businesses that provide services to customers in return for payments. Just as H&R Block claims that it can get me a larger refund if I pay it to prepare my tax returns, so unions claim that they can secure higher pay if workers pay them for representation. That's why I'm not anti-union. I see unions as businesses - part of the service industry. There's nothing special about unions today - no reason to join hands & sing "Solidarity".
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
