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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16711 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 11:23 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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You continue to omit optimism.., the Big 3 have always had to overcome a phase or 2 in the past, on the other hand, the Big 3 have always maintained a better record than let's just say, 90% of mostly all other companies(and i would honestly say it is better than that).., okay what was the record of the nonbig3 products 80 years ago.., i would put that record number at a 0.., okay, what about 50 years ago.., have to put that record at 0 also.., 50, 60, or 80 years ago America has clear evidence that the Big 3 have a much greater record than 0.., and we can keep going past 100 years.., i am sure the Big 3 have full knowledge that change is in full gear and the Big 3 have a better record for recovery in the past from their trial and error. i wouldn't mind seeing the Big 3 succeed this caotic jumble. Looks to me like the change is in for the better. As for the electric cars, i am not sure if a battery explosion in the garage would be a healthy experience, but the actual damage would be greater than that of today's average car battery, and there are further similar examples of which i won't mention. On another scale i could goto Pizza Hut and tell them how to make a better pizza, something tells me i would only be ignored. The Big3 are not out(and never will be out) to monopolize the government, i will never feel that same way about the nonbig3. The face is that the nonbig3 are definately not even close to being friends of the superfriends. The fact is no other product as of today can overmatch(and i don't even see an overmatch) enough to change my mind. I remain a Big 3 customer, as also i prefer the 'made in usa' products whenever i shop. "We will sell no wine before its time."(as stated by Orson Welles) Today, PAUL MASSON is a jug wine producer of blended wines. --> link title "Buy no Auto except from Big3" ~cheers |
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Replying to: lokki (Dec 05, 2008 1:11 pm) The reason, it turns out, was that at the GM plant, pulling the cord resulted in a harsh klaxon blaring to alert that something had gone wrong. At the Toyota plant, they play music to indicate that a mistake has been found which is an opportunity for improvement. The music was non-threatening, and the assembly line worker would therefore not worry about the consequences when pulling the cord. The loud klaxon focused so much unwanted attention that the GM employees preferred not to pull the cord at all. During the tour, I noticed the line being stopped a couple of times (and the music play - it was very non-intrusive). So yes, culture plays a big part. But Deming did provide the Japanese manufacturing industry the mindset (and the statistical tools) to leapfrog the quality barrier, and is a national hero.
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Replying to: dave8697 (Dec 04, 2008 8:54 pm) Will Honda and Toyota hire all the vets? |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 04, 2008 9:08 pm) To hire vets who served this country is a good thing. A patriotic thing which shows those boys and girls that we as a nation care about them and their families. Glad and honored to have them as my union brothers/sisters. I hear you, what I hear is that were back to the time when big business was abusing its power. I hear your call to keep these greedy bastards in check. Your calls for the rebirth of organized labor echo throughout the nation. The UAW needs to get stronger and grow. Big business and big labor keep each other in check. 1) There is a good chance unemployment will be 10% by year end 2009 2) As a parents with kids in college, believe me when I say housing prices will continue to fall in 2009. This generation coming up behind us has NOTHING and the job and wage outlook is horrible for them. They WILL NOT be buying your $300K+ homes any time soon, rest assured...especially on the "soft" degrees that they are achieving. 3) As jobs contract, sales contract, and as sales contract, companies contract. We haven't seen the shoe drop on the manufacturing and services sectors like we have the real estate and financing sectors yet. That's coming. Retail's starting to feel it, automotive is crying uncle and, on a more personal note, aerospace is beginning to whimper rather LOUDLY! 4) Commercial property is the next to tank and that happens in earnest in 2009. If credit doesn't free up, the banks won't be re-upping a lot of these short term mortgages. And if the rents don't improve, the terms on those notes will be UGLY at best and probably drive a lot of bankruptcy into that block of ownership! 5) After that comes the credit card debt. Jobs are tough and getting tougher. If there was any hope of paying this debt down, it will evaporate quickly as people are sent home. However, the reality is a two-fold solution that focuses on job creation with high end middle class wages. 1) Intellectual Property must be protected in this country. We cannot continue to have our engineers and scientists invent new products that are then instantly shipped off shore to be produced elsewhere. If you do that, you lose high paying manufacturing jobs and you lose the experience base that creates high paying jobs in the service sector. 2) We need to somehow develop a middle class work force that is willing to educate themselves in the skill sets that can handle the manufacturing and servicing of the high tech products. Based on what I read in the news and deal with on the streets, I don't know if that can happen. I can tell you that. And I can tell you also that there is only so much room for "soft" degrees like journalism and political science in a high tech supplier market. This is how we grew the world's #1 demand marketplace after WWII. On the supply side, we supplied the world with the high end technology products that they could not produce for themselves and charged for those products accordingly. And in so doing, we created a real wage here in America that was second to none. After a solid 20 years of outsourcing, the American demand marketplace has been busted, literally. Wages evaporated, savings evaporated, inheritances evaporated, and the credit line from the middle class real estate bubble burst. ...and in the back of my mind, I still keep referring back to the article that said, by some estimates, there could be $360 trillion of these worthless financial instruments that need to be devalued to perhaps 2% - 10% of their face value. That's 3 - 5 years of the world's combined GDPs that needs to be re-valued and written off. As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW. The great depression was a turning point as is today in history.
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Replying to: manegi (Dec 05, 2008 6:49 pm)
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 05, 2008 3:16 pm) The data shows that the best are in the 1.5 problems per vehicle while the average is 2. Not a heck of a lot of difference anymore. Three years is encouraging. That would probably be 35K-50K miles for most people. Still pretty young. I think one of the reasons you see resale go into the dumper with the Detroit makes is that right or wrong, there's a perception that at 75K and above you are really taking a risk with the Detroit iron, while with Honda or Toyota you have a lot of life yet. I know we had our '94 Mercury Villager until 222K miles with no major work. It was a Ford body with a Nissan engine and transmission. Our gardener who bought the car has 240K on it now and it is still going strong. My '85 Jetta was at 143K when I sold it. My brother's Windstar had major engine and tranny problems before 60K miles. |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 05, 2008 7:19 pm) Gagrice was talking about putting all GM retirees on full health care. Why are you playing the vets card when that is not relevant? By tying the Union to all things mom and apple pie - believe me, it's not gaining any sympathies. Re: the domino effect in the economy. You are probably (and unfortunately) correct. Problem is that when the engine of the economy is overheated and falsely over-revved with cheap subprime loans and government overspending, there's going to be a day of reckoning. It does look like it's going to be bad and long. But not directly related to the auto industry. As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW. Not much chance of that. Let's wait four years and check back, ok?
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 05, 2008 7:19 pm) Some talking head on the radio this evening claimed that the "real" rate of unemployment was already around 12%. There's a lot of slack in the official number - people who are no longer seeking work aren't counted plus there's a lot of manipulation like the “birth/death” model that gets factored in. There may be some laid off UAW workers in the next month or so who'll be wishing for the Jobs Bank to be back.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 05, 2008 6:57 pm) I would expect they will. The Imports are going to need to ramp up production when GM goes belly up. The UAW has been sipping poison koolaid for decades. They are just a small fraction of their former selves. They have no one to blame but their own greed and lousy leadership. Don't expect the Imports to be anxious to use old GM facilities and workforce. Just not realistic. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 05, 2008 8:38 pm) Are they the ones added to the food stamp roles? There are always a good percentage that just do not work. Live off friends and family. When unemployment gets down to about 4% there is a labor shortage. Many jobs available and no one to fill them. Mostly entry level. I don't see as many help wanted signs as there was just a year ago. I cannot believe GM did not insist on dumping the jobs bank on that last contract. What worthless management. I thought our general manager was stupid during negotiations. He would look like a rocket scientist alongside Wagoner. Too much inbreeding in upper management at GM.
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