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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 02, 2008 9:48 am) No disagreement here, there's a couple Toyota dealers I've been to that made me feel like I needed a shower when I left. But I've also bought from 2 other Toyota dealers and the experience was positive. Hondas I've bought over the years have been the same, some good, some not so good. But none of those compare to the 2 Nissan dealers I attempted to purchase. Those guys were the worst of the worst. But the domestics I bought years ago weren't necessarily a picnic either. Dealing with dealers is a necessary evil, bad experience and I walk.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 02, 2008 2:26 pm) Me too, I like the CTS. I was recently at Disney world and went on the GM Test Track ride--it was a hoot--and it ended up in a "showroom." My wife and I sat in a new CTS and we both liked it . . . a lot. Though to me the upper seat cushion felt a little pronounced. Still, I'll put it on my short list for my next purchase. |
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Replying to: avatexrs1 (Dec 02, 2008 7:20 am) One can only wonder why Richard Nixon aka tricky dicky resigned? For that matter why would Gerald Ford have to pardon him? |
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lemko: "The only people I know who've ever complained about their cars - whether foreign or domestic - were they people who treated them like garbage. They never serviced them, let small problems turn into big ones, changed their oil like once a decade, never washed them, and the interiors were so filthy they should've been declared biohazards"...maybe so, but the number of cars of ANY make out there after 20 years is few, so your sample still does not account for the mass exodus of the average American from the Big 3 and over to the imports...your reasoning is flawless for you, but does not work with them, and it is "them" that the Big 3 need for sales volume, 'cuz there ain't enough lemkos out there... cooter: I think I got it now..................
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Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 02, 2008 8:09 am) In 82 she switched to a Supra, and awesome car. Better than the 82 VETT. Again the battery lasted 5 years and no abnormal problems. In 92 she got the Camry from hell, both front window motors, the supposed 100,000 mile coolant ate the radiator, water pump, freeze plugs, then the motor mounts came down on the power assited rack and pinion steering, the battery lasted 2 years. The air conditioning broke 4 times, twice while out of warranty. All four brake lines popped off at the same time. This was the first year model, however, this was way too much. If you look under MSN reliability ratings 92 through 95 were dogs. That was her last Toyota. If they would have acknowledged that this last car was anything but cheap to keep and tried to attone, maybe she would feel different. I can get you the service record, and have shown it to Toyota and they have done nothing whatsoever.
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 02, 2008 6:06 pm)  law filed), power steering pump blew en route, 2 battery drain conditions, A/C compressor failed, and the air bag sensor failed. Worst experience since my Dad's 1988 FWB which was a compete disaster. This will be my last GM. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 02, 2008 6:00 pm) Trouble free??? No. But nothing major, and nothing that would make me say "never again", and the $600 in tires I put on the Ultra 3 months ago is more than I've ever spent on a repair on any of them. BTW, if lemko ever saw them he'd cry at how filthy they are, and none of them were ever garaged...
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Dec 02, 2008 6:06 pm) That's interesting, because I'd always heard that the 1992-96 was the pinnacle of quality for the Camry. That it was almost TOO good for the price, so they've been de-contenting them ever since to keep them out of Lexus territory. Although what's probably really happened was simply that increased competition caused them to cheapen the Camry. One of the managers here at work had a Camry V-6 of that generation, and I think he got it up to around 200,000 miles. It had a lot of problems by that time though, and IIRC, he ended up giving it to his mechanic. Still, I'm not trying to refute your experience in any way. Sometimes even the highest rated cars go bad. I have some friends, a married couple, who asked me for advice on a new small car back in 1994. Even though I have a preference for Chrysler and GM, even I had trouble recommending their small-car offerings. So I recommended a Civic. One of my friends was miffed, because he wanted to push them into something like a Plymouth Sundance or Dodge Shadow! Well wouldn't you know it, that '94 Civic turned out to be one gigantic turd! It blew a head gasket, and then had a/c problems. Around 80,000 miles, head gasket #2 blew, and they decided to dump it I swear that car turned out to be a lemon simply because I recommended it. And of course, my Sundance loving friend was just loving this.  They replaced the Civic with a 1998 or so Saturn S-series...I guess it's not that often that a Honda sends someone running and screaming back to General Motors! |
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Your experience, along with lemkos, is why the Big 3 market share has not dropped to zero, and no one says that it would...they can and do make decent cars... But my repetitive point is that your experiences apparently do NOT reflect what many (not most, not all) Americans have experienced over the last 20 years...depending on the cars and the number and type of problems people had, for some it is water under the bridge, for some/many it is "Big 3???...Never again...Never"...and the number who say never again has been growing over the years, and it would seem that the Big 3 aggravated them enough by not addressing their concerns, so they are going elsewhere in ever-increasing numbers... It isn't that I don't respect your experiences with Big 3, but you must recognize that you are members of an ever-dwindling minority of people who are "Big 3 or die"...and if they continue to lose more buyers to the imports, for whatever reason, you may end up with your cars in Cuba, as that is where they seem to last the longest...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 02, 2008 6:41 pm) But is that the biggest reason?? How many young buyers out there are "2nd generation" import buyers, meaning they, now in their mid 20's, just go out and buy what their parents have been buying for years, or the tuner crowd. I also have another theory. A shift in immigration from Europe to Asia/ S. America. Years back, immigrants seemed to want to embrace EVERYTHING American, and that included buying American cars. Now, I see them demanding we speak THEIR language, embracing THEIR culture, and driving what they drove back home. I do agree with your premise, but is it now the biggest reason. We have a saying in our Bocce league: "Crumbs make bread". SO I think that there is alot of issues that conspire in the downturn in the Big 3 (More choices than ever before is another).
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