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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: jimbres (Nov 18, 2008 7:15 am) What do you mean "cars Americans want to buy?" I'm an American and I consistently buy American cars. The kinds of cars Toyota and Honda build are the type I don't want to buy - ugly, weird, and dull.
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...some facts into the discussion, please. Not ALL of the Big Three are going to collapse simultaneously. These companies are in very different situations, even though the lazy media prefers to lump them together. Ford has the money to make a go of it until it brings new product - Fiesta, all-new Focus, restyled Taurus - to market within the next 18 or so months. The company has reduced production capacity to bring it in line with demand, and sold Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, all of where were cash drains and distracting management from focusing on the core brands - Ford and Lincoln. Quality is on the upswing, too. General Motors is in dire condition. But a restructured GM is still a viable enterprise. Only problem is that a restructured GM would be a much smaller company, sized to serve about 15-18 percent of the market. The best solution would cause the buy-American crowd and Lou Dobbs to have a stroke. But if the government really wants to save GM, it should turn it over to a foreign company - preferably Toyota - and give said company carte blanche to make the changes necessary to right the ship. GM's current management has a mixed record at best. The quality is still uneven; the brands are still a mess, with too much badge engineering and overlap; it changes nameplates too often; and there isn't anything on the horizon that will really increase market share. The Volt is not going to be a money-maker, and the Cruze doesn't look any more exciting than the Cobalt. The Camaro is sharp, but one retro-styled pony car isn't going to save GM. The brutal truth is that Toyota has done a much better job of meeting the needs and desires of American consumers (check the sales figures and market share trends); its quality is still, as whole, superior to GM's quality; its marketing is far superior; and its brands have essentially displaced comparable GM brands in the hearts and minds of customers. Toyota is the new Chevrolet, while Lexus has far more prestige than Cadillac among the younger, more affluent customers who will matter in the coming years. With a restructured GM, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab would go away. Buick and GMC would be combined into one division - call it LaSalle - and share platforms with Chevrolet at the lower end (although no economy Buicks, or LaSalles, please) and Cadillac at the near-luxury end. Chevrolet and Cadillac would be GM's big guns. The Jobs Bank would go away, and UAW members would accept work rules the same as those at the transplant operations. If the government is going to inject any money into GM, use it to fund the UAW VEBA. Most of upper management needs to go, too. Keep Bob Lutz for continuity. If GM needs anything, it is culture change. The world no longer revolves around GM, but I get the impression that GM management and the UAW haven't quite figured this out yet. Second, "good enough" isn't good enough anymore. But the last thing we, the taxpayers, need is for GM to receive aid that only postpones the inevitable, necessary restructuring. If we give GM money now - the way GM and the UAW want us to do it - prepare GM to beg for another cash infusion in about 6-12 months. As for Chrysler - it's toast. Cerberus has suspended new vehicle development, leaving the company basically dead. At this point, the best thing that could happen is that foreign companies buy up the remaining valuable parts of Chrysler - Jeep, the minivans, the Dodge Ram and maybe the LX cars. The rest is worthless. And the collapse of one of these companies will not bring about the next Great Depression. If Chrysler collapses, for example, Ford will pick up the slack, especially in rural areas. There will still be a vibrant domestic automobile industry. People seem to miss that Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are expanding their presence here, building vehicles that were designed HERE with American tastes in mind. Their footprint in American will only increase. And the collapse of one of the Big Three will have very little effect on areas outside of their operations. There won't be marauding bands of unemployed auto workers in southcentral Pennsylvania if GM or Chrysler collapses. Nor will there be Unemployed Auto Workers Gone Wild in San Francisco, Dallas, Orlando, Seattle, Boston, etc. Sorry, but the Big Three aren't that big anymore. It's not 1965 anymore...and let's not quote hysterical press releases from biased, industry-funded sources to "prove" otherwise. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 16, 2008 4:12 pm) Heard that today's New York Times is recommending that Congress should approve the Bush proposed Treaty with Columbia. Times being the bible of the liberals and Democrats, will Congress now obey the Times and approve the Treaty? Remember that U.S. organized labor has up to this time opposed this Treaty and has Pelosi/Reid in their pocket.
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Replying to: grbeck (Nov 18, 2008 7:46 am) Just as an aside, Ford's selling 2/3rd's of its Mazda stake too. Should net them about $540 million. Straightline |
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Replying to: circlew (Nov 16, 2008 5:33 pm) Through the decades, workers in the building trades have always had to cope with recessions on their own. Some of these are carpenters, drywallers, roofers, heavy equipment operators, etc. Mostly they are resilient and adaptable. UAW workers have been shielded from reality by Big 3 management capitulation to ridiculous union demands. |
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 18, 2008 7:36 am) Apparently, you don't have much company. When I got my driver's license back in the 60s, GM's share of the U.S. auto market was in the neighborhood of 55%. So big & so successful was the company that management's biggest worry was that the government would step in & break it up. (It's widely believed that the Justice Department was prepared to move if GM's market share had reached 60%.) Today, GM's share is less than 20%, which means that an awful lot of Americans have gone elsewhere. The company has managed to squander what was the most profitable franchise in automotive history. And now we're expected to bail it out? |
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Replying to: jimbres (Nov 18, 2008 8:08 am) Yeah, and I know exactly where I'd tell them all to go. Hopefully there is some kind of cosmic justice and they will all soon find themselves unemployed or underemployed and all their beloved imports are towed away to the repossessor's lot or the scrap yard.
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 18, 2008 8:19 am) GM has had 30+ years to respond to the challenge posed by Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes. For the most part, it has either failed miserably or succeeded only by avoiding direct confrontation (abandoning cars to focus on trucks and SUVs). GM had the home team advantage, and it squandered it. When I read DeLorean's book, On a Clear Day, You Can See General Motors, I was shocked at how relevant it remains after 30 years. GM has been poorly managed for too long, and top management has focused on just about everything BUT making top-notch cars. It has survived on sheer size, the truck market and a dwindling customer base that refuses to consider vehicles from other manufacturers. That is not the fault of people who bought something else. |
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 18, 2008 7:36 am) What do you call the ongoing loss of market share of the Big 3 to the foreign brands? Every American exercises his/her free will to buy the vehicle that is best value to them and meets or exceeds their needs/expectations. Obviously, the foreign brands have been doing a better job than the Big 3 in this regard. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Nov 18, 2008 8:43 am) And that vehicle is either a Buick or a Cadillac for me!
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