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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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...don't have an auto industry of their own. Shoot even FRANCE has it's own auto industry and own Nissan to boot! Don't give me the UK as an example. They are a huge has-been nation compared to what they once were. "The sun never sets on British soil!" Feh! Looks like "Great" Britain has been experiencing a solar eclipse for almost 40 years. Yeah, we'll go into a deep depression if the Big Three collapse and we'll come out of it in about 5-10 years. Of course, will any of us be here when it ends? I so, won't we be living a much diminished lifestyle? Import lovers should really fear a collapse of the Big Three if they love their cars so much. Let me give you this scenario. "Hey, Bill! How's your new 2016 Toyota Camry? I love it, Joe, but I can't seem to keep a decent paint job on it. Every morning I wake up to see some joker keyed it or spraypainted profanity on it! Yeah, I'm having trouble with my 2014 Honda Accord. I just can't keep tires on it because some idiots keep slashing the sidewalls. Hey, there's Al! Al, we've been talking cars. How's your 2015 Nissan Altima? Fine, except I can't seem to keep glass in it with all these unemployed auto workers roaming the streets. Just yesterday, I was stopped at a light and these two guys in tattered clothes threw a cinderblock through my windshield. Geeze, why doesn't somebody call the cops? What cops? The city laid off half the force 'cause there's no tax funds for them. I hear there's going to be more lay-offs..."
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 18, 2008 5:53 am) If I don't want to buy your product, it's your fault -- not mine. Don't try to bully me into buying by threatening to brick my windshield. Instead, go to work figuring out exactly what I want & offer it to me at a price that I'm willing to pay. I'll say it again: the customer is always right. (Anyway, where I live, I'm more likely to be mugged by a laid-off Lehman Bros. managing director than by an unemployed auto worker.) It's worth noting that back in the late 70s & early 80s, the British government spent billions trying to rescue British Leyland, which had been the UK's largest car manufacturer. But BL went under anyway.
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"As has been said many times as the domestic auto industry continues its frenetic unraveling, there's plenty of blame to go around, and a portion of it lies with the unions. The United Auto Workers has rarely been out of the conversation of what's ruined Detroit Inc., but arguments centered on the notion that fat, uncompetitive unionized labor is the root cause of Detroit's ills are specious - and little more than an excuse for some good-old-fashioned union-bashing." Yeah or Nay on Bailout, But Don't Blame Detroit's Problems Only on Labor (AutoObserver) 
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 18, 2008 7:21 am) |
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Replying to: jimbres (Nov 18, 2008 7:15 am) What do you mean "cars Americans want to buy?" I'm an American and I consistently buy American cars. The kinds of cars Toyota and Honda build are the type I don't want to buy - ugly, weird, and dull.
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...some facts into the discussion, please. Not ALL of the Big Three are going to collapse simultaneously. These companies are in very different situations, even though the lazy media prefers to lump them together. Ford has the money to make a go of it until it brings new product - Fiesta, all-new Focus, restyled Taurus - to market within the next 18 or so months. The company has reduced production capacity to bring it in line with demand, and sold Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, all of where were cash drains and distracting management from focusing on the core brands - Ford and Lincoln. Quality is on the upswing, too. General Motors is in dire condition. But a restructured GM is still a viable enterprise. Only problem is that a restructured GM would be a much smaller company, sized to serve about 15-18 percent of the market. The best solution would cause the buy-American crowd and Lou Dobbs to have a stroke. But if the government really wants to save GM, it should turn it over to a foreign company - preferably Toyota - and give said company carte blanche to make the changes necessary to right the ship. GM's current management has a mixed record at best. The quality is still uneven; the brands are still a mess, with too much badge engineering and overlap; it changes nameplates too often; and there isn't anything on the horizon that will really increase market share. The Volt is not going to be a money-maker, and the Cruze doesn't look any more exciting than the Cobalt. The Camaro is sharp, but one retro-styled pony car isn't going to save GM. The brutal truth is that Toyota has done a much better job of meeting the needs and desires of American consumers (check the sales figures and market share trends); its quality is still, as whole, superior to GM's quality; its marketing is far superior; and its brands have essentially displaced comparable GM brands in the hearts and minds of customers. Toyota is the new Chevrolet, while Lexus has far more prestige than Cadillac among the younger, more affluent customers who will matter in the coming years. With a restructured GM, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab would go away. Buick and GMC would be combined into one division - call it LaSalle - and share platforms with Chevrolet at the lower end (although no economy Buicks, or LaSalles, please) and Cadillac at the near-luxury end. Chevrolet and Cadillac would be GM's big guns. The Jobs Bank would go away, and UAW members would accept work rules the same as those at the transplant operations. If the government is going to inject any money into GM, use it to fund the UAW VEBA. Most of upper management needs to go, too. Keep Bob Lutz for continuity. If GM needs anything, it is culture change. The world no longer revolves around GM, but I get the impression that GM management and the UAW haven't quite figured this out yet. Second, "good enough" isn't good enough anymore. But the last thing we, the taxpayers, need is for GM to receive aid that only postpones the inevitable, necessary restructuring. If we give GM money now - the way GM and the UAW want us to do it - prepare GM to beg for another cash infusion in about 6-12 months. As for Chrysler - it's toast. Cerberus has suspended new vehicle development, leaving the company basically dead. At this point, the best thing that could happen is that foreign companies buy up the remaining valuable parts of Chrysler - Jeep, the minivans, the Dodge Ram and maybe the LX cars. The rest is worthless. And the collapse of one of these companies will not bring about the next Great Depression. If Chrysler collapses, for example, Ford will pick up the slack, especially in rural areas. There will still be a vibrant domestic automobile industry. People seem to miss that Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are expanding their presence here, building vehicles that were designed HERE with American tastes in mind. Their footprint in American will only increase. And the collapse of one of the Big Three will have very little effect on areas outside of their operations. There won't be marauding bands of unemployed auto workers in southcentral Pennsylvania if GM or Chrysler collapses. Nor will there be Unemployed Auto Workers Gone Wild in San Francisco, Dallas, Orlando, Seattle, Boston, etc. Sorry, but the Big Three aren't that big anymore. It's not 1965 anymore...and let's not quote hysterical press releases from biased, industry-funded sources to "prove" otherwise. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 16, 2008 4:12 pm) Heard that today's New York Times is recommending that Congress should approve the Bush proposed Treaty with Columbia. Times being the bible of the liberals and Democrats, will Congress now obey the Times and approve the Treaty? Remember that U.S. organized labor has up to this time opposed this Treaty and has Pelosi/Reid in their pocket.
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Replying to: grbeck (Nov 18, 2008 7:46 am) Just as an aside, Ford's selling 2/3rd's of its Mazda stake too. Should net them about $540 million. Straightline |
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Replying to: circlew (Nov 16, 2008 5:33 pm) Through the decades, workers in the building trades have always had to cope with recessions on their own. Some of these are carpenters, drywallers, roofers, heavy equipment operators, etc. Mostly they are resilient and adaptable. UAW workers have been shielded from reality by Big 3 management capitulation to ridiculous union demands. |
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 18, 2008 7:36 am) Apparently, you don't have much company. When I got my driver's license back in the 60s, GM's share of the U.S. auto market was in the neighborhood of 55%. So big & so successful was the company that management's biggest worry was that the government would step in & break it up. (It's widely believed that the Justice Department was prepared to move if GM's market share had reached 60%.) Today, GM's share is less than 20%, which means that an awful lot of Americans have gone elsewhere. The company has managed to squander what was the most profitable franchise in automotive history. And now we're expected to bail it out? |
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