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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
15589 messages, Last post on Jul 01, 2009 at 7:44 PM
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 12, 2008 11:25 pm) Are those hacks telling GM to build better products, close down divisions and bring wage and benefit levels into line with the transplant operations? Sorry, but those hacks need to learn that jobs exist to make products that people want. If people don't want the products, there is no reason for the job - or company - to exist. As hard as it may be to accept, car companies are for-profit enterprises that exist to make products that people want, and thereby earn a profit for shareholders. They are not social welfare agencies for blue- and white-collar employees. rockylee: Well Europe and Japan, discourage foreign investment !!! Which is why GM completely owns Opel of Germany and Vauxhall of Great Britain, and Ford has a wholly owned subsidiary based in Germany and Great Britain. And why Saab is owned by GM, and Volvo is owned by Ford. And why GM has owned stakes in Suzuki and Subaru, and Ford still owns a controlling interest in Mazda. rockylee: Try importing a car into China !!! A red herring. No Chinese-made cars are imported into the U.S. and won't be for another 10-15 years. rockylee: Superior to what ??? To the minds of the sheep who read Pol Pot Reports ??? Ostriches who stick their head in the sand regarding Consumer Reports test results have absolutely zero credibility. Lots of people read the magazine; they are are all potential customers. (And for the record, more than a few independent mechanics I've spoken to all agree that Consumer Reports results are largely accurate.) Lots of us are sick of the arrogant Detroit attitude that customers are obligated to ignore all criticisms of Big Three vehicles because they "owe" something to the UAW, or Big Three management. The recent action of Alan Mullaly of Ford is much more productive - he brought his top engineers to the magazine's facilities and forced them to listen as Consumer Reports staff critiqued Ford's cars. rockylee: Yeah you are right because the Japanese, have purchased the automobile media outlets !!! The Japanese auto makers have bought up EVERY media outlet, and every organization that tests vehicles? Sorry, but you are clutching at straws. This is what desperate people whose world is collapsing around them believe, because the truth hurts too much. rockylee: The statistics show quite the opposite of what you are saying. Are going to try to convince me that a Camry is made better than a Malibu ???? You can't be serious ??? When the long-term reliability results from surveys conducted by Consumer Reports or Truedelta.com show proof of this, let me know. I want long-term results, not results measuring the first 90 days of ownership. rockylee: You know beter than that but that is the perception folks have. As imidazol97, has pointed out on numerous occassions that GM, cars have as few problems as Toyota's !!! Sorry, but attempting to extrapolate reliability based on Edmunds.com postings is a faulty method for a variety of reasons, and we've pointed this out numerous times. rockylee: What's frightening is we have so many ignorant people in this country. They let one issue consume their way of thinking even if it effects their wallet and way of life !!! With those two sentences, you've neatly summed up the main problems with your outlook on life. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that too many UAW members and GM management personnel share these views.
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 13, 2008 7:40 am) That is a nice thought. Just not realistic. I always felt good about our bargaining unit when we were able to police the slackers. That has nothing to do with the intelligence of the workforce. Much of it has to do with pure luck. I was lucky to get that call from RCA in 1970 offering to take me to Alaska and give me a job. Sure I had a decent job with Pacific Telephone at the time. I was ready for a change and was lucky enough to be offered the job. RCA encouraged us to have a Union. They did not want to deal with over a 1000 people on an individual basis. RCA Global was Teamster. So we ended up Teamster. It had nothing to do with all of us being any better than anyone else. In fact most of our technicians came from out of the SE. They had the experience on the Telco Equipment we were installing to give AK long distance service. your boss can't tap you on the shoulder when you are older and say your out of here without giving a reason One of the important benefits of Unions. Seniority is top importance. As long as the person is able to do the job he should not be threatened by personality issues that many times come into play. I am sure I have made a few bosses want to fire me. Though when I quit to try farming, it only took two days to get my job back with a call to my old boss. I have a hard time talking to you on these issues because as a union supporter it bothers me that you are a globalist, pseudo-capitalist !! I am a realist and you an idealist. We live in a global community. No amount of whining and crying will change that. I came to that realization in the 1970s. It may take you a while. NOTHING is going to change with a different President. They are figure heads. Obama wants to be king and he can be that as long as he does not step on the toes that put him there. And that was not the voters. It was the people that gave him nearly a billion dollars to run his WORLD WIDE campaign. You think he is not thinking globally? I would expect a GM factory in Kenya before another one gets built in Michigan. Remember he made promises all over the World. Do you think he is going to crap on any of those countries. The teamsters I know think a lot more like me than you !!! They are very pro-american, and think we need to rid ourselves of all this shoddy lead tainted goods we import from those commies !!! You need to follow the news more. We are making poker chips in the USA with up to 50% lead paint. Don't ever let a child play with poker chips. some cores were found to be as high as 50 percent lead, answering any questions as to how a clay chip hides its weight. Lead poker chips I never though of myself as having a silver spoon compared to most kids growing up You were privileged compared to myself and most people I was raised with. I have a lot more than my parents had. Both my mother and stepfather died over the last 10 years, with no money. I paid to bury both. My biological father the lifelong Democrat had plenty. Which he did not share with his first two children and ex-wife, my mother. No child support from that dyed in the wool Democrat tool & dye maker. I was raised by a Republican mother that supported us working in a sewing factory piece work. They were not Union during the war. When the Unions came in they ruined the job for the fast seamstresses. That was about the time my mom met my stepfather and left the sewing factories. I was raised to despise how Unions stole personal responsibility and freedom from the workers. My Uncles that helped support us were both Union Millwrights during the war. They also complained about the poor work ethics of the Union carpenters and millwrights. So you have been fed a lot of bull in your life when it comes to the REAL TRUTH about Unions. The UAW may have been great for your family. Was it great for the rest of the USA? Now that you want US to bail out your beloved GM. You want US to embrace the UAW that is part of the reason GM is in dire straits. Thinking ill of GM and the UAW is not Un-American. The UAW is a big part of why jobs have gone to Mexico, China & Canada. Believing you should be paid when you do not work is UN-AMERICAN. but one would think that after 8 years of that program My Union job and 401K did better during this administration until the Democrats wormed their way into control of Congress. Look at the mess the 110th Congress has made. I did not agree with Bush on most things where he was trying to appease the Democrats. Amnesty was a big one. I am taking a wait and see on the Obama Presidency. If the stock market reaction to his getting elected is any indicator. We are in DEEP DOO DOO.. PS The Union has never gotten me a job. I got my jobs and then joined the Union. |
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well, I knew I wasn't going to make any headway with you regarding Kia Motors. I, however, have a lot of respect for them, having owned two Kia's. They could use some powertrains that enable owners to get better gas mileage, but they share that with the majority of the automakers. You will get a generous Warranty and a good, solid car when buying a Kia. I liked their bodystyling before Peter Schreyer of Audi Motors joined them and Peter makes them an even better Company. The new Spectra Coupe is going to be a gorgeous sporty looking Coupe from Kia. It's Mitsubishi and Kia fighting for my spending dollar for cars. rockylee...I am interested in the new Chevy Volt for 2010. I have read up on it's engineering and it appears they've designed a propulsion system that is truly green and is innovative as well. With a small ICE motor that kicks in after burning up the initial 40 miles of electrically-propelled cruising. That small gas motor ignites to charge up the generator inside that will then start generating big-time and propel the wheels directly with that energy. Then you can drive for another 350-400 miles. I am really interested in this type of technology and I am interested in a Chevy Volt. I didn't like hearing that Chevy decided to charge $40,000 instead of $30,000 for one. They should've just kept their mouths shut until they knew for sure what the pricing for the Volt would definitely be. But they can be forgiven for that-they are truly hurting and in a crisis. I have been turned off big-time by GM for about 40 years. I loved the GM cars of the 60's. The problem with getting interested in a Chevy Volt now is that Chevy may not be there in 2010. I am guessing they will be, though. rock, go knock 'em over and get that job, man. I am pulling for you. I like a lot of your ideas about the economy and "free" trade and truly what has been going on for years is not completely working. But I made it after Boeing. A lot of job things are personal and are up to you. Go get that job, dude!  And, as far as the UAW goes, they have won these high wages through strikes. gagrice, you have to agree, they have won those high wages fairly. And people don't like things taken away from them after getting them. These times are truly unique, I now hear Obama is working on not only middle-income tax breaks(for example, someone earning $50,000 a year will only pay 1/2 the Federal taxes under Obama's administration)but he is also working on an economic "stimulus" check like we got under Bush. Humm...I'm thinking Band-Aids, but, like I said, we will get one in 2009 because a lot of us have already heard about this "stimulus" check, right? To take that away from us now would be tantamount to...ummm......treason?  Before the new Administration has even began? Understand, people, my thoughts are so now because my son and his friend have just visited us. My son grew up in the liberal NW(Everett, just north of Seattle)and he has been going door-to-door for Barack Obama in Colorado. He left because their economy is horrible. They are on their way to Hollywood to pursue music careers. Yeah, I know. To give you an idea where he's coming from, he is one that truly believes the Bush Administration was behind the World Trade Center disaster in Sept. of 2001.  Yikes, that's a hard on to wrap my mind totally around. So, imagine him visiting us and having to stay longer because his '85 Cadillac Seville needed a starter put in. And in Willcox that meant waiting for parts and service my son hand-picked in order to get the lowest price. Taught him well! He's so liberal I can almost see Ted Kennedy in his eyes sometimes. So my comments this morning reflect a strong Bush-bashing mentality from him. They have decided to further populate California if they can't get a record contract signed. Probably get a job flipping burgers at Pink's. Knowing my son he might try getting a job in politics. I really differ from him in so many ways. I avoid politics like the plague. A side benefit would be that LA is only about a 7 hour drive from us here in Willcox, Arizona and I could groove to driving over there to visit him and play in LA while I'm there. 
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 13, 2008 7:23 am) I was reading a blurb the other day talking about how all the "fallback" retail jobs are going away in this economic climate. All the laid off Circuit City workers aren't going to be able to go to the mall and get hired on at Linens 'n Things or Mervyns. And soon they'll be competing with a bunch of laid off UAW workers? Retail Losses Sap a Jobs Safety Net (WSJ) |
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 12, 2008 11:25 pm) Don't know for sure, have not examined, nor have each of them in garage and drive equal amount of miles. But, let's say that Camry and Malibu of similar quality of materials, assembly and reliability for sake of argument. So, what extra value has a UAW assembled car have over non-union to warrant their $73/hr overall cost vs half of that for non-union? List specifics. Let's say the Rock were like Joe the Plumber wants to be and started up a business with a couple people, stayed private and kept ownership and was President. With Rock's savy and vision he grew the company to 10, 20, then 50 people. Rock would take care of his people in providing continuous training, employee growth and responsibilities, benefits, empowerment, respect and above average wages for comparative positions. But, one day, one of the Rock's operations managers hires someone with proper qualifications and in a couple months, this guy starts to try to organize workers to be union represented - perhaps UAW, Teamsters, whatever. What would the Rock do?
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 13, 2008 8:48 am) |
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 13, 2008 7:23 am) Remember "Be true to your school". If Obama/Pelosi/Reid give bailout to Big 3 in late Jan, will UAW workers do early morning chants, cheers, to be thankful to Obama? Didn't some kind of union have their members have a song they would sing on tv commercials promoting themselves?
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| don't think I haven't thought those very same thoughts. Sad, really. People are really going to have to start thinking hard about the right kind of training. Healthcare is something people need to keep in mind. It's still a booming job market, training can take as little as 6 months on up to a vet, who will end up training for a total of 12 years! | |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Nov 13, 2008 9:05 am) One thing I think you forgot. Union members are rarely visionaries. They feel they should have a big piece of the pie without any risk. They feel they should be paid when the company is not making any money. When was the last time a Union created a job that produced anything? The Unions have done a good job of alienating about half the population in this country. My wife's company was Union. Her husband that started the company was a Union Iron Worker. He kept it Union and retired with an Iron Worker's retirement. When he died his son took over the business. His son was a Union member. He quickly busted the Union. My wife who helped start the company, was never a fan of the Union. She made less doing all the job bidding, than most of the Iron workers. She felt they were a bunch of whiners and cry babies. She was a workaholic and expected everyone else to be the same. Workaholic capitalist create jobs. Unions members do not.
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"Geeze, the way things are going, a Wal~Mart job is going to look prestigious! What will become of all these people at the bottom of the jobs ladder? Are they simply going to fall off into oblivion? Desperate people do desperate things. Look for a huge upswing in violent street crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, homicide, and suicide. " Save a little panic for when thing get terribly worse why don't ya. Europe's been at 10% unemployment for years. Our standards are high and ya'll act like its the end of the world. 6.5% UE sucks for those folks but the best we ever see is around 4% (considering that at any time 4% of us are changing jobs/careers/family development). It's hard to be an undereducated worker in these times. I guess that's why my mom always said college will not be a choice like it was for her. I pray for these folks that struggle to survive but they live in the best country in the world. Don't forget that this economy completey propered after the 1970's-1980's manufacturing decline where we restructured to become leaders in the information age with technological advancement, high tech job creation, and became the most productive workforce in the world. Maybe we should fund the space programs some more and so we can develop the next teflon, velcro, personal computer and thousands of other things. Maybe we need another cold war? god help us. These are smart creative people even if Rocky doesn't want them to work for 14 bucks an hour and would have them bussing tables.
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