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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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A major article in the WSJ today. Key excerpts: There are two American auto industries, one generally thriving and the other drastically shrinking. In all this lies a tale of hubris, missed opportunities, disastrous decisions and flawed leadership of almost bibilical proportions. Japan's car companies...gained a competitive advantage largely by forging an alliance with American workers. Detroit...has remained mired in mutual mistrust with the United Auto Workers union. The result of this burden... has been catastrophic....Detroit lacks a diversified source of profits...i.e. small cars, midsize sedans, etc. In June 2000, GM's confident new CEO, Rick Wagoner, invited journalists to a resort in Italy's Alpine lakes to describe a future of "fewer cars, more trucks". Ford's CEO...upgraded the decor on the corporate jets....while the Ford Taurus was falling further behind the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Not...long ago...Ford dispatched a team of welding experts to a factory to explore efficiency moves. The plant's union leaders, fearing layoffs...refused to meet with the team....when everything is a negotiation, many things don't get done. To thrive...Detroit will ahve to use the brains of its workers...and the UAW will have to allow it. The article's premise is that bad labor relations combined with extremely poor management to led us to where we are today. It will be hard for GM to raise enough money to survive without bankruptcy or government bailout; Ford is in a bit better cash position with more options. They also feel the potential GM/Chrysler merger would be likely a disaster. The article talks about how a recent machine failure in one of the Honda plants had a bunch of workers come up with a novel quick-fix solution, and only 150 cars were lost on the schedule - no union squabbling, arguments about who could fix the machine, etc. Even if the Detroit 3 (or two or one) survive, the article feels that ultimately the labor relations have to be as productive as with the Japanese transplants, or it's going to be just a matter of time. And that's why the now closed UAW thread was so important to the auto industry, and why many of the apparent conversations that drifted off the main topic were still really on the topic! So sad.
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Replying to: tlong (Oct 25, 2008 2:21 pm) This looks like a free link to the story or try a headline search (How Detroit Drove Into a Ditch ).
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 25, 2008 2:50 pm) |
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Replying to: dallasdude1 (Sep 14, 2008 5:13 pm) " Were all a sum total of our life experiences. You certainly have had bad experiences with union represented people. However, there are exceptions and to judge everyone by your experiences is just throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some of us look for the negative/flaws in everything. That is not a bad thing, but rather an opportunity for changing things.You can't really believe that all union people are worthless. Or that all Democrats are ignorant. It stands to reason there are many still in the dark in both union and non-union as there are in every political party. Mutually exclusive statements only serve to create stereotyping, which are anything but scientific, and only moves mankind back into the dark ages." Good post sir. Still it is sad that we must hope and pray for a GM /Chrysler merger so they will be "too big to fail ". If so they, the uh big.. three may survive. Except Ford who had better cut a deal asap. Posturing is over. It's the 11th hour and it's time for let's make a deal. UAW concede or else. Global economics is a cruel taskmaster. |
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Are we going to add another $50 billion with more than half going to support UAW overpaid wages and benefits? link title If the UAW would take another wage cut and cut the benefits they're wanting US to pay for, that would be different. I just saw a FoxNews interview with a Union person not wanting to lower anything--just give them the money.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 09, 2008 8:37 am) Probably, yes. Will it change anything? Only if there are huge strings attached. IOW, Government would oversee the auto industry. Which begs another question: What does anyone in Washington know about restructuring and building a new industry? When you re-engineer something, you get rid of the old process. That includes management and most of the current model line-up and dealer networks. At the end of the day, I fear the money will be a short-lived approach. Let's see what happens because things are moving very fast. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 09, 2008 8:37 am) Let's see...$50 billion now or if they file bankruptcy the government says it could cost taxpayers over $100 billion to pay for the guaranteed pensions. Which way do you want it? Today I became officially laid off my UAW job with Chrysler, where I'd been for 25 years. I am working at a new job in my same field, where I've been for 8 weeks. I'd been on vacation from Chrysler for several weeks and was working two 8 hour per day jobs for over a month. Excellent dual income but I wouldn't want to do it forever. I'm already finding these anti union tirades easier to tolerate than I would have 6 months ago. If the Big Three go under it will be too late when some of these union bashers realize just how much decent paying union jobs stimulated the overall economy. I will find out Nov. 12 what Chrysler and the UAW have negotiated as far as early retirement and buyout packages are concerned. I'm expecting a substantial offer from some of the rumors I've heard.
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Replying to: tedebear (Nov 09, 2008 1:58 pm) My guess you are one of the smart ones that hustled out to get a job when you saw the handwriting on the wall. Those left will be wailing in a few weeks about their loss of lifestyle. Then we knew you were a go getter because you ride a bike a LONG ways to work. That to me took dedication. Something that I imagine carried over to the workplace. A good paying job is a two way street. The worker makes big bucks and the company has to make big bucks to pay the worker. I believe many UAW workers were not concerned with their company making money. Let's see...$50 billion now or if they file bankruptcy the government says it could cost taxpayers over $100 billion to pay for the guaranteed pensions. Which way do you want it? Here is my take on the bailout. If it happens and I am not sure it fits the criteria of the bailout bill. We give the Big 3 all that money. They keep the UAW happy for a few months until that runs out. Then we get stuck with the bankruptcy coverage of the retirees. GM especially needs a plan. Not just the Volt that may never be built here. I don't believe they have the will to make the changes without filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. it will be too late when some of these union bashers realize just how much decent paying union jobs stimulated the overall economy. No doubt in my mind high paying Union jobs keep the wages and benefits in any given trade at a higher level. When it gets a bit tight companies will try to beat the Union down. The technicians left at my company have lost benefits since I retired. They are acting like they could do better without the Union. They have no idea what they are considering. Kids today are stupid and idealistic, you cannot tell them anything. Management will work them against each other and wipe out what we fought 37 years to attain. Good luck in that new career. Hope it all works out with your UAW retirement. A bird in the hand is a good thing.
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This $$$ suppose to be paid back with some tax breaks added † i thought most of this $$$ was going towards some other things, as far as the union goes - seems the union is the true backbone to protecting and guiding(aide) workers - alot supposedly gets done that we don't hear about(good things) and not necessarily locally. i thought most any union could assist almost any company workers in building their own union although miracles do not always happen just overnight, god bless ‡ 
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 09, 2008 8:37 am) Well I would like you to define what overpaid means ??? You know darn well Keith, what those folks in the GM, plants are really getting with this two-tier wage system. If Uncle Sam, doesn't save these three large corporations because certain members many of which were recently voted for back in office support unfree-trade then just what in the heck are these folks suppose to do. I hear so many folks gripe and complain about how great these people have yet they themselves thought they were to good to go work in a car factory back in the day !!! I wish my generation had the opportunity of yours to make a good living making cars or car parts !!! GM, agreed to the define pension plan and invested plenty of money at the right times back a few years ago when the stock-market was booming to pay for retiree healthcare costs !!! It amazes me just how uneducated Faux News, is on the subject and they showed their right-winged biased all morning on "Faux and Friends" enough to make me puke everytime I hear them say "fair and balanced" CNBC, had Michigan's Govenor Jennifer Granholm, whom I admire a lot because she has tried harder than anyone to close down free trade and support the automobile industry and labor unions !!! If we can throw $85 billion so far at AIG, we can sure loan GM, the money !!! I can guarantee you one damn thing and that is Barack Obama, will fix this economy !!!! It will take him two-terms to rid ourselves of failed Bush Economics, but I have confidence that this community organizer ya'll love to hate will succeed at being a successful president !!! He has top people around him for advisors including some republicans !!! If the UAW would take another wage cut and cut the benefits they're wanting US to pay for, that would be different. I just saw a FoxNews interview with a Union person not wanting to lower anything--just give them the money. Are you still mad about the election as to why you would say something like this ??? You know from several posting from me and others that a entry level job at the car plants is $14 an/hr. and ask what will that get you in Dayton, Ohio ??? A Chevy Aveo and a efficiency apartment ???? That would be like me saying school teachers are over-paid, right ??? Your spouse is a school teacher, right ??? Many on the right think they should have their wages slashed as well something I don't support !!! You rail on the UAW, but did not say anything regarding the compensation or golden parachutes these executives have in place. If anything the government should put a statue of limitations on executive compensation packages !!! Don't tell me you wouldn't attract the best and brightest because you've seen just what kind of talent Detriot's Big 3 has attracted with their recent launches they've released !!!!  Have a great day imidazol97 !!!  -Rocky
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