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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 09, 2008 7:57 pm) I am not aware that the US operations of MB and BMW (which have not produced the most highly thought of vehicles of those companies, btw) were actually the relocation of jobs, rather than a new facility built for a new product line where North Americans were to be the primary consumers. I have always wondered why it is a crime for employers to reward loyal workers with a little loyalty in return. What is wrong with that? Other than that it works against longterm thought, and longterm thought is a crime in the American corporate model. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Aug 10, 2008 12:22 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 10, 2008 5:32 am) People can be "satisfied" when they are allowed to buy a cheap big TV made under $1/day living conditions, and are allowed to drive a bloated SUV that makes them feel safe and cool. Credit has been easy for a reason. Those surveys are pretty irrelevant. How much freedom of speech do you really have? And for how long? You are free so long as you conform to what is expected. |
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Replying to: fintail (Aug 10, 2008 6:56 am) How about an E Class? I think you know the point I was trying to make. The UAW worker of old had a much higher standard of living than most factory workers in the USA. Company A cannot continue to pay more than company B for the same product and stay in business. There are a lot of people in this country that are happy to work for Honda or Nissan or BMW at a lower wage than the UAW worker. There are lot of people in this country besides the UAW workers that are finding out that living to the ragged edge of your income is foolish. The government has encouraged it with ridiculously low interest rates. It is still on the individual to make smart choices. I don't see that happening. That is not my fault and I don't feel I should bail any of them out. Including the banks and brokerage houses.
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Replying to: fintail (Aug 10, 2008 7:10 am) No, I have thought of going to Europe. Too many other places I would like to go first. You've seen one castle you've seen em all. Maybe Greece, we have friends begging us to come visit. My wife has been everywhere and is not as motivated to travel outside the USA.
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 10, 2008 7:24 am) The standard of living in western Europe as a whole is not any worse than in NA - some areas have problems, some areas are amazingly nice, just like on this continent. There's more in common than different, even with the high European taxes.
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 10, 2008 7:19 am)  , I doubt many UAW workers can buy a 60K STS (as if someone would). But you can get a nice used one for 25K...and most people will think it is new. I don't disagree that UAW workers have received excessive perks...but there is blame to go both ways, but it doesn't flow that way right now. The old UAW also was involved in an industry that was more important than that seen in most factories, then the cost cutters and bad planners messed up the products, and today here we are. The government will defend the financial sector a million times more than it will defend anything connected to manufacturing or living wage jobs - as the financial sector controls the US government (since the Warburg Fed, at least) no matter if neocon or pseudo-commie, and living wage jobs are the enemy of many who seek control. |
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The reason that union labor can build a great BMW is probably because I would bet (I have no actual knowledge) that a german union does not accept just any schlump into the union, and I am quite sure that the Germans take pride in making their MBs and BMWs... Whereas here, one has to wonde rjust how many UAW workers go out of their way to sabotahe the product because, in their infantile mindset, that's how they get back at "the man", being too stupid to realize that they are getting back at ME, and pushing me toward import products... Many people WANT the BMW or MB, but simply cannot afford it...very few, I would bet, lie awake at night just praying they can someday own a Saturn... When you see the dufference in the quality, you have a chance to understand what I would assume to be the difference in the union... Plus, I would also bet that if a BMW worker saw a fellow worker doing something to sabotage the product, that bad worker would not be on the line for long...here, the UAW will fight to the death to keep the lousy worker on the line, with appeals taking 2 years before he is finaly removed from the line...how many rotten products has that worker made while the appeals go on???...thousands???hundreds of thousands??? I would further bet that the skills of the German worker will put ours to shame...remember, Lee Iaccoca lamented on how many UAW people cannot read simply warning signs... We can still take your app for the Kia plant...  Didn't Forbes just do an article on "Dying Cities in America"???...I think Detroit and Cleveland were in the top (bottom) 3...add to that your Mayor, who can actually make the crooked Coleman Young look like a saint... I can appreciate anyone hoping for a resurrection, but Detroit and Michigan will never be it...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Aug 10, 2008 9:08 am) Or maybe since most of BMW (46%) is controlled by the Quant family, they can afford to plan longer term, and can move faster to dump a line (Land Rover) when circumstances dictate. Or maybe they just know how to control their workers from their "shameful history of Nazi profiteering and use of slave labor"? BMW's Quandt Family Faces Its Nazi Past There's plenty of news articles about IG Metall, which is the engineering union at BMW and lots of other EU factories. Many of them sound similar notes to UAW and CAW stories on this continent.
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Replying to: steve_ (Aug 10, 2008 9:25 am) IMO the old Nazi crap brought up against German firms now and then is a pretty rank distraction...I don't see those involved with all the murder undertaken in the names of the British or Soviet empires being brought to any kind of accountability or even mere attention. When others ever give reparations for their crimes, perhaps then they will have a right to complain. Until then it's just a ruse that in the end gives more support to the flow of western money to Israel, which creates nothing but trouble. If any nation in history has paid for crimes, it is Germany.
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