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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 07, 2008 5:11 pm) I don't personally have problems with unions themselves, but I do have an issue when either a union or the people in that union that refuse to accept the current situation and be willing to change. The attitude of "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too" is so prevalent in this state. Still, Michigan does have a lot to offer, and it does have a skilled workforce - now if they can just change the attitude.. |
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Replying to: circlew (Jul 08, 2008 12:37 pm) VW executives have narrowed their site options to Alabama, Tennessee and Michigan. Any bets on who gets ruled out first? |
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Replying to: circlew (Jul 08, 2008 12:37 pm) That doesn't make sense!!! no matter how much you want to smear GM. Reality "A real thing or fact"
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 08, 2008 2:11 pm) Did I ever mention my awful '74 Volvos that pretty much turned me off the brand for good? (more than a dozen times that is  ). Did I ever mention my union assembled Nissan that's humming along at 125,000 miles? (more than a few dozen times?  )
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While your definition is correct in the abstract, for each person's experience THEIR PERCEPTION IS THEIR REALITY...it does not matter how many JD Power awards GM gets, if they had a lemon (or multiple lemons) with a poorly fitting car, rattles that the dealer could not fix, a radio that never worked, and an A/C that did not cool, for that buyer, the reality (for them) is that Company X makes junk... If we were talking bubble gum at 5 cents each, one could afford to try 10 different brands before settling on one favorite...but when you spend thousands of $$$ on a Big 3 piece of junk, and then if your import experience is one of high quality, the NEW reality is that import cars are better...that is why the Big 3 have an uphill battle, they not only must make their cars good, they must make them GREAT, because it is 4th down and they are behind by 2 touchdowns with a minute to go...whether that buyer blames the union, management, dealers does not matter...if they refuse to buy another product from, say, GM, then GM has much work to do to bring them back, because their past bad behavior has alienated that car buyer, and THAT is reality, regardless of any dictionary definition... pmom: "Oh, by the way, they don't want to pay (or even co-pay) for medical, dental, or other benefits."...that is another stupid demand of the UAW, that they pay nothing for their benefits...many company plans have deductibles of $500 or $1000...it is time the union workers joined the rest of us and paid a premium for their benefits and paid some of the freight in the actual cost... Don't worry, tho...as long as they maintain their ridiculous demands, the automakers may capitulate to the actual demand, but then dump 50,000 workers to have the additional funds to pay...so, will the last UAW worker have fully paid health care???...yes, he will be the only one... Maybe you believe that SE Michigan (Downriver) has skilled workers to offer...skilled trades, yes...but now you have to find someone who is actually stupid enough, after 50 years of union militancy amd welfare entitlement attitude, to actually want to set up shop in a war zone...that answer is a resounding NO!!!...if the worker wants a job commeasurate with their skills, they will have to go to the job, as the job will never come to Michigan...and, when they fill out a job app, they had better hide their UAW experience, as any employer with half a brain will NOT want to untrain that entitlement attitude that is now embedded in their DNA (" "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too"...those days are over)...the State of Michigan was the big wheel for a half century or more, but it is now a part of history...there is NOTHING that Michigan offers that will ever bring an employer up there, that cannot be obtained elsewhere... Sorry to be so direct, but tell me anything offered by Michigan that would draw an employer away from ANYPLACE else...higher taxes???...crime???...entitlement attitude of everyone on the street???...Job Bank, getting paid by a company to sit on your a**, remember, they thought they were entitled to it...just how do you intend to get any of them up off their duff to actually work, when the work "strike" is also in their DNA???... Aside from tourism in the upper state, as far as industry goes, Michigan has NOTHING to offer anybody who wants to set up a PROFITABLE company...period... Start packing...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 08, 2008 4:13 pm) Marsha7, your rants are so out of date they are spoiled. You have nary a clue what current UAW workers pay. The people you talk about have retired and this new generation of UAW folks well are well SOL. On another note I would love to see the Volkswagon plant located here. I lreally like the VW Passat's. What car is going to be made in that plant ???? "The Rock"
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for years they only paid about a $100 Ded while everyone else was much more than that...and they howled to the moon when they actually had some paycheck reductions to pay for a TINY portion of the premium... Care to bet 25 cents that the VW plant never sees Michigan soil or within 200 miles of it???????????????????????????????????
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 08, 2008 6:51 pm) That's totally different than saying "They pay nothing for their benefits". What deductible are you referring to anyway - a doctor's office visit, an eye exam, a regular dental checkup? I pay a deductible for all of these. An electrician co-worker hopes the VW plant ends up in Alabama. His permanent home is there and the plant location would be within daily driving distance. He seems to be a jinx wherever he goes. He was at the Chrysler Huntsville, AL parts plant when they closed it. Now he's at the St. Louis assembly minivan plant, which is getting ready to be mothballed at the end of October. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 08, 2008 11:25 am) I agree, but it's not that simple. First, the Toy sludge and Hon transmission troubles were not particularly widespread. Honda was very helpful in rectifying the problem; I don't know if that's true of the Toy sludge issues. So while those were black marks, they weren't THAT bad compared with far worse problems with big 3 iron. Big 3 iron has also had 20-30 years of major issues, which is a much longer track record. My college carpooler saved his $4K from McDonald's and bought a brand new Vega that rusted and then the engine corroded by 50K miles, while I kept driving a 66VW bug. My brother bought a 1995 Windstar that had transmission and engine problems, both well under 50K miles. Those things stick with you. While GM has had some very reliable cars, you have to look at what people want: 1 - Is it reliable? 2 - Is it refined? Does the engine sound good? Do the doors shut solidly? 3 - Is the interior pleasant and attractive? Are the ergonomics good? Are parts of high quality, or do they quickly break? The problem is that even when GM has gotten #1 right, often #2 and/or #3 has been lacking. It's not JUST reliability, it's not JUST refinement, and it's not JUST interior quality. Sure, you could have a reliable Buick in the 1990's, but what did the inside look like? That's why the new Malibu, for example, is such a welcome sign. But it sure is late....
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Replying to: rockylee (Jul 08, 2008 6:43 pm) FRANKFURT, July 5 (Reuters) - The U.S. State of Alabama will be the likely home of a new Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) manufacturing plant, beating two other states, German industry newsletter Automobilwoche said on Saturday, citing senior company sources. A VW spokesman said that a decision on the location of the plant had yet to be taken and that Alabama, Tennessee and Michigan remained in the running. A decision is expected by July 21, the spokesman said. Daimler's (DAIGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) Mercedes Car Group has had a manufacturing plant in Alabama for years and ThyssenKrupp (TKAG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), an important supplier of automotive steel, is also opening a production facility in the state. (Reporting by Jonathan Gould and Frank Siebelt, Editing by Peter Blackburn) |
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