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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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"Funny they don't blame Honda assembly line workers for transmission problems or Toyo workers for the poor assembly and sludge in their Toyotas.. You know, it's funny how the well known sludge and transmission problems of Honda and Toyota get thrown around.... as if a high fraction of those cars are highly unreliable... every make has its problems.... but there is NO COMPARISON to the problems of the big 3" Well said...there is no comparison, as the number of bad cars due to sludge and transmission problems probably PALES to the number of cars put out by Big 3 that barely qualified as boat anchors... Mind you, I am NOT anti-American, as I own a Crown Vic and Dodge Ram, and am looking at Buick, Caddy, MKS, Taurus and other...but I have had 4 Hondas, and I believed, as I do to this day, that they were better made than any Big 3 car I have owned...just my opinion, of course...but I have seen my share of American junk and I CAN see the forest for the trees, whereas the union folks just want to be sure that floor sweepers get paid their $30/hour for a job worth $5/hour... I may rail against the unions, but, oddly enough, I have been buying Big 3 since 1998, five vehicles... Does that mean I have earned the right to be critical???... BTW, from a tax viewpoint, Mich and calif are probably two of the worst states to do business, which is why business is leaving to move to Nevada, Ariz, Oregon, Idaho...Michigan business is simply shutting down, as what they make is wanted by fewer and fewer people as time goes on... Looking at this macroeconomically, the auto business isn't going away, it is simply changing, and change is always painful...While Big 3 plants shut down, new plants are being built by competitors in the South...they will NOT hire the experienced workers of the North simply because of their entitlement attitude and militant thoughts, where anytime the sun shines the wrong way they strike...I would bet it will be along time before any plant down south has any kind of a strike... Unions were useful in the 1930s, maybe thru the 50s/60s...after that, they became too powerful, as workers should NEVER control the company, unless they have placed their risk capital on the line...the fact that they work there does NOT give them power...you might call the right to strike the power of the worker, but what you see happening is the long-term response to that right to strike...they will keep the right to strike when there is only one plant left in Michigan, and then the last UAW member will, hopefully, turn out the lights when the last unionized plant closes...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 06, 2008 2:06 pm) How many Toyotas? It's interesting how there seems to have been a coordinated effort to stomp out talk about sludge on the part of Toyotas. If it were so minor, like the wrong snap ring having been installed in certain transmissions, it wouldn't have necessitated a PR effort. But there was a discussion here on edmunds with a rep of Toyota talking about that. But then the snap ring problem evolved into more with the shifting problem that people were having with the new fly-by-wire system. Kind of strange. If GM were to have had the money saved from high paid workers and nonworkers, and high paid executives so that they could have done more PR and more replacements and recalls, it would help their image also. |
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My wife, before she was my wife, was given a 1975 Toyota pickup truck by her brother, in 1978...what is now the Tacoma was just their pickup truck in 1975...even back then, it went almsot 135K miles before breaking down, back when the average Big 3 car had a warranty for 12K miles and wore out after 50K... My first Honda was a 1985 Prelude...buying one living in Detroit at the time was almsot dangerous...paid $12K, put 20K miles on it in 20 months, sold it for $11,500...try that with any Big 3... Next, bought a 1986 4 Door Accord, so we had more room than the Prelude... In 1988, bought 88 Prelude Si 4WS, and 1988 Legend L, easily the 2 best cars I have ever owned...the Prelude had all the power options and 4 wheel steering, which was the best option on any car in history...parallel parking and turning was a dream...kept it 180K miles, until 2001 88 Legend, to me, was the best designed family car I ever had...perfect size, well designed, everything ergonomic like the person who designed the dash actually sat in the car, something I often wonder if Big 3 designers ever do...kept it to 165K, and traded it for a 1998 Buick Regal, almost the worst car I ever owned since the 80s... When we gave away the Prelude in 2001, we bought a 2000 Sable... Ever since the Regal and Sable, altho my heart really wants imports because I believe Honda really makes superior cars, I buy American because I think it is the right thing to do (so far...  ...)... So, I rail and scream about unions and the welfare-entitlement mentality of those they call "members", I think they should be thrown to the wolves for making some of the junk they do, yet I buy American because I want to support American industry...just because I want to support American industry does not mean I can't complain about what is wrong and how to improve it, and dumping the union and its workers WILL improve it... Don't tell rocky I buy American, or I will never hear the end of it...he thinks I have a stable of Hondas and Toyotas, and I don't want him to think otherwise... ...   
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 06, 2008 4:55 pm) Our experience was about 180 degrees out. I bought cheap Japanese vehicles from 1964 till 1978. All but one Datsun PU were PURE crap. I went back to BIG 3 vehicles in 1984 with a Ford Bronco that was great. From 1988 to 1998 it was all GM PU trucks and a Suburban. I traded the 98 Suburban for a 2005 GMC Hybrid PU truck that was just tinny. That is the best description I can give. I do NOT blame that on the UAW workers that built it in Indiana. I blame it on the bean counters, engineers and the Federal regulations. They destroyed the toughness of the PU trucks with crumple zones and light sheet metal to save a few pennies on gas. The 98 Suburban was a solid vehicle. I should not have sold it. I switched to a Sequoia as an interim vehicle until I can get a diesel SUV I really like. It will be made in the USA. Not likely by a UAW shop. That I blame on the UAW for making themselves the bad guys of the industry with some of the recent unwarranted strikes against GM. |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jul 05, 2008 3:43 am) I beg to differ. FTTP like Fios, is in limited availability because FTTP is very expensive to do on a mass scale and it's not 100% digital like U-verse. I also believe FIOS, doesn't have nearly as many channels as U-verse, and it's more expensive. FYI - U-verse, is available as a FTTP in newer residential area's -Rocky |
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Replying to: lemko (Jul 05, 2008 6:34 am)  -Rocky |
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Replying to: lemko (Jul 06, 2008 6:56 am) I suppose we could rename the Detroit Pistons, the Detriot Bullets, since Washington, changed it's name to the geeky Wizards and like Killadelphia, where once proud industry's stood are now replaced by well bullets, and other violence. Like I've said before my friends on the other side are getting what they wanted !!! The Free Market, has yielded us low paying jobs, and those high-tech jobs and service jobs you righty's love to talk about that are going to replace all these union jobs..... well where are they ??? huh ?? I didn't hear you ??? You've had 8 years of a republican president and 6 years of congress and all those low paying manufactoring jobs ya'll allowed to be shipped out are not being replaced by these high-paying service/high-tech jobs. Well from what I can see is this folks that manufactoring went to China/Mexico, The High-Tech/Service Jobs went to India, and everything else left here is being done by illegal aliens. The only secure jobs created under Bush, has been the healthcare industry but with everyone losing their jobs and not having insurance benefits who's going to pay the doctors and nurses ???  So lemko and I might jump off the deep end occassionally but darn it their is a lot of truth in what we say. I guess if you are surrounded by corn fields on all sides life may look differently in your perspective. -Rocky
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 06, 2008 4:55 pm) With the way you rail on UAW workers I would never have guessed you would drive a american made car. I almost wished you drove Honyota's but I have a feeling you wouldn't rail ontheir workers even though they make a helluva alot more in wages and benefits than your average UAW worker !!! Also your anti-union/michigan rant from a earlier post is sad. Marsha7, you said something to the fact that workers don't have capital invested in the company thus they have no right to strike. Funny you rail on communist, socialist, dictators, but capitalism breeds that same mentatlity. The bottom line in all three is the select few at the top get it all. The greedy with money control the world and the chess game called life. Unions and other organizations that get togeather, and stick togeather like pawns can checkmate the kings. "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" "The Rock"
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 06, 2008 7:21 am) My wife's niece and nephew live in Ohio. He is an airplane mechanic. Some airline went broke that he was working for. He was offered a great job in Alaska and turned it down. He cannot stand to be away from family and his Ohio State Football team. He is going to drive truck so he can stay in OHIO. He had a great job for the government here in San Diego and quit to go back to OHIO. go figure Well who wants to live in Alaska, full-time ??? Maybe 2-3 months out of the year for me !!!! With the cost of living in Alaska, his truck driving job will more/less be equivalent I'm sure. I did the whole move out of state deal gagrice, and while I respect your accomplishments pal, which included a lot of moving around it's not for everyone. Some people are really close to their family's and trust me at times I regret moving back to michigan, but I believe 14 months later that I would still make the same decision over again as it has blessed me with a lot of happy times with my parents, brothers, grandparents, and a couple of lady friends that have lifted my spirit in my most difficult times. It's hard to put a price tag on that pal !!! "The Rock"
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 06, 2008 12:29 pm) |
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