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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16701 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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you are spot on. PATCO-Schmatco...idiots. I mean really, they would put air travellers at risk just to "fight" Reagan and get better pay and health care benefits? They shouldn't have had those air controller jobs, then, in the first place. Hope I didn't step on anybody's toes that loves and respects The Boeing Company. It's just an irritating situation to work hard and produce important jet aircraft work and then, because of increased sales form Airbus, higher jet fuel prices, less orders coming in, the grey suits have to put down their raspberry jelly donuts for a minute and make some short-sighted decisions. I do remember reading SPEEA union periodicals where union members were complaining about the lack of loyalty from Boeing management for it's workers, that all Boeing management cared about was making a profit for it's shareholders. All the while the company had about 1.3B in savings and yet they can't see it in them to let some good working folks stay and work and help produce jet aircraft and work towards a Boeing retirement? And just wait out the economic negatives for a while? Look at them now, if I were out of my mind and wanted to go back now would be the time, orders are rolling in and everybody is eating strawberry pie and drinking fine Seattle's Best coffee to their hearts content. Humm...it took about a year for Boeing to fire Phil Condit and start "re-firing" bullets again. Imagine that. Suddenly orders came in, everybody wanted a 787 "Dreamliner" and life was all cherries and roses again. Some delivery delays, but that was what kept us humming on the drawing production line. gagrice, yes, I and my two fellow Respiratory Therapists are making good pay and getting reasonable benefits(we all would love better healthcare benefits, yes)in this right-to-work state of Arizona. The hospital subs it's RT care out to a nationwide RT contractor but there's been talk of the hospital buying out our contracts from them and hiring the 3 of us direct. It would be a welcome move, same pay and better healthcare benefits through the hospital. Hope it happens. 
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 28, 2008 9:20 am) OOPS, I forgot we did not have any military left. We sent our best to rescue the hostages. We ended up with broken down helicopters & dead soldiers out in the desert. the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in an aborted mission and the deaths of eight American military men. PATCO should have taken the clue that Reagan was a man to be reckoned with when the Iranians let the hostages go the day he was inaugurated. |
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Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Jan 28, 2008 10:24 am) Many businesses use sub contractors for employees they do not want to make permanent. Gives them a chance to watch and pick out the good workers. The oil companies in Alaska did that a lot. They would hire Union (IBEW) technicians to fill in for a while. If they liked them they would offer them a permanent job. With MUCH better pay and benefits than the IBEW guys were getting. When I left the BP techs were all making over $130k per year. For 24 weeks work per year. That was almost $20k more per year than we were getting for the same work as Teamsters. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Jan 27, 2008 5:03 pm) Nice to meet you !!! -Rocky Hi Rocky, It's great to finally come out of the shadows, where I've been lurking for several months reading this forum while helping others save thousands of dollars on their new car purchase in other Carspace forums. Someone on here recently said the days of good paying jobs without a college degree are over. They may want to read the article listed below for a second opinion. Here are some highlights: The belief that you need a college education to have a well-paying and rewarding job is quickly fading. A four-year degree definitely has its benefits in the business world, but it’s not the only path to a successful career. In fact, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), eight of the 10 fastest-growing occupations through 2014 don’t require a bachelor's degree. So while a college degree was de rigueur for the baby boom generation, that's not necessarily the case now. http://www.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=- 1226&pf=true
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Replying to: tedebear (Jan 28, 2008 6:35 pm) The automotive technician of today can make a handsome wage. In 2005 when I flew to Portland and bought a Passat TDI, the service manager was lamenting his head mechanic/technician had left to go to work at the Cadillac dealership. He got a substantial raise from the $140k per year he made there at the VW/Buick dealership. As the article says most of the jobs listed would be nearly impossible to outsource to India or China. |
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Replying to: tedebear (Jan 28, 2008 6:35 pm) No doubt you can be successful w/o a degree, you have to be motivated/hungry whether you have a degree or not. The one thing that is misleading about that list is the statement a Bachelor's degree is not required. Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with poeple who have a degree for many of those jobs. The list didn't say no college require, but a Bachelor's degree not required. Meaning, education beyond HS is still relevant and important. No to mention college/extensive training is required to be an air traffic controller as listed below: There are several ways to become an air traffic controller. Many are trained while in the military and after their service is completed, the FAA can hire them. If not a part of the armed forces, civilians can attend one of the 14 colleges recognized by FAA that give degrees in aviation administration with an emphasis in air traffic control. Minimum Requirements 30 years of age or younger United States citizen Become an employee of the Federal Aviation Administration Pass a rigid medical examination including but not limited to vision, hearing, substance abuse/dependency along with a background check (Need More Info?) Currently the FAA is hiring candidates who have graduated from one of the 14 schools* across the US: Community College of Beaver County, Beaver Falls, Pa. Daniel Webster College, Nashua, N.H. Dowling College, Shirley, N.Y. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Fla. Hampton University, Hampton, Va. Inter American University of Puerto Rico, Bayamon, Puerto Rico Miami-Dade College, Miami, Fla. Middle Tennessee State University, Murfreesboro, Tenn. Minneapolis Community & Technical College, Eden Prairie, Minn. Mt. San Antonio College, Walnut, Calif. Purdue University, West Lafayette, Ind. University of Alaska Anchorage, Anchorage, Ala. University of North Dakota, Grand Forks, N.D. Vaughn College, Flushing N.Y. Hardly a situation where you'll get your H.S. diploma on Friday and be an air traffic controller on Monday
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Replying to: dieselone (Jan 28, 2008 7:51 pm) >" Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with people who have a degree for many of those jobs." tedebear, Fact is that if a potential employer has 2 or more job candidates, and everything else is equal, the one with the "degree" is going to have a much better chance. And yes there are lots of folks making really good pay checks that have never been to any form of higher education, such as college, trade schools and such. A few ways of doing that are: 1. Do a better job than your peers, and be recognized by your employer. 2. Have a brilliant idea and enough self drive to see it through. 3. Being in the right place at the right time. 4. Marry the bosses daughter. 5. Blind luck! 6. Divine intervention. Notice that your supplied "List" did not include assembly line workers? So many of those jobs are now being done by robots. More are done in other countries, as sub assemblies and not much skill is required to bolt 2 sub assemblies together. When not much skill required and large list of applicants meet, job value/worth goes down. I'm speaking of "ANY" assembly line. Fact is that American manufacturers no longer have a captive audience. Companies from around the world are competing for that audience and consequently those jobs. We don't have to like it....! We do have to deal with it. You find a way to reverse that and you will be a zillionare. (See #2 above) Advice! Listen to those that went before you. Their advice comes from experience. That experience comes from both good and bad judgment. They know what use to work, and what works now. They have "seen" the changes take place. Take a good look around! Your success will mostly depend on you! How much drive do you have, how much good advice you accepted, and how you handled that advice.  Check out Post 2445, above. You decide!  Kip |
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and this is what everyone has known they stand for: Quote: "24 years later, when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble"... That is what featherbedding is, since more workers are needed to produce a given qualntity, since theise on the line are working at 60%... That, rocky, is why the union movement is dying and continues to die a well-deserved death...the world is onto the crap from the union workers, and companies simply will not stand for it anymore... You can rah-rah all you want, but if Michigan is where you think the job growth is, you may want to face reality and move...in 10 years, unions will only be found in the history books... BTW, good luck selling Chevys...how is it going, since you have been there, oh, how long???...seems like about a year after all these posts...   Oh, if your grandparents were how you learned about the Reagan years, I assume they, too, only saw the union viewpoint, so when Ronnie fired Patco, as he should, there ain't a union person out there with the ability to understand why it was right, except that if a union was affected, then they always see it as "bad"...no matter how wrong they are... |
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 28, 2008 5:41 am) So yeah I might rah-rah-rah-rah, but I have a damn good reason to as I have young kids that are going to have to live through the disaster the so called "Greatest Generation" has left for the future.  I can see "why" this country is quickly headed for the 2nd/3rd world standard because we have people that think like they do. Buying non-union Chinese Made goods might allow you to buy more of what you want but at what cost ? What happens when your company out-sources your job ??? What happens iluv, when people can't afford to go to the hospital or afford to use your services ??? What if college graduate from India, replaces you in the health care industry and Marsha7, as a attorney. laugh now but that future isn't a unrealistic scenario. We are already seeing that happen as steve, posted a link. Next they will start their lives here and uncle sam will give them a tax break to start their practice because they are a minority. I will close by saying that some of y'alls anti-union stance is formed mainly because of what some yellow belly journalist printed in the local newspaper and slanted it in favor of the company and you sitting on the "John" are cursing them without getting all the facts. We all know that writers don't lie as Al Stump, once said !!! -Rocky
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I acknowledge what you say, but, as a lawyer, I am always trying to give my clients the best service I can...luckily, there IS a personal aspect to what I do that cannot, IMO, be replaced by an immigrant or a foreigner... Heck, we already have the discount competition, as folks try to sell legal forms on the Web, charging 20% of what I would charge to do the same thing...so I already experience what it is like to have someone undercut me, this is nothing new...the difference is, I accept it as part of the free market, and all you can do is preach for the union... Whether it is an outsourced lawyer in India or discount forms on the Web, what is the difference???...I still have to deal with it, NOW... Of course, there is one small advantage, and I do mean small...most of the forms on the Web are generic and not state specific, altho some of them may be...the ads always state that it pays to have a local lawyer review the doc to see if it is proper...so, I may make only half as much, but I spend zero time drafting it...it is not my job to determine if the doc is COMPLETE, only if it conforms with GA law...so, as long as it conforms, it is legal to file...if it leaves something out, that is their problem...they should have retained me from the start so liability would be mine...now they can just blame themselves...or the Indian lawyer 5000 miles away... Your post above is incomplete...I still maintain that of people want industry in this country, simply stop buying "Made in China" shirts, TVs, pants, shoes, sneakers, tires, spark plugs, computers, cell phones, you name it... rocky, the power rests in the hands of the people RIGHT NOW..,. the reason it may not work with automobiles is that, like it or not, the Big 3 ruined their reputation for quality with 2 decades of crap (and that is something your grandparents cannot comprehend and could NEVER teach to you, meaning the Carter and Reagan years, before and after), and the imports have built a rep on the quality that America lost... But, as long as a shirt fits, a cell phone works, shoes are comfortable, the Americans stand as good a chance as anybody because the investment is so little compared to the price of a car... So, get all your union buddies, in and out of Michigan, and tell them to boycott WalMart, Sports Authority, Sears, etc, until they stop buying Chinese products and only stock the (more expensive) products made with American labor...as soon as you say "Boycott Walmart" the howls of laughter will rise like the smoke from a volcano, because they will not do it, not for one minute... What do you think of my idea???...is it not infallible???isn't it guaranteed to work???...if the aisles of Walmart and Sears and Sports Authority and Circuit City are empty because we won't buy Chinese products, will that not change the American employment landscape within 90 days???... One last thought...it ain't no journalist that has given me my opinion of unions...we dealt with them in NY and I dealt with their members in Detroit...NO journalist could EVER have written anything so damning of the unions as what 10 years of dealing with them, their attitude, and their poorer quality products, will do to one's mind...it is a pleasure to watch them wither on the vine... What say you??? (legal lingo, there)...
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