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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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Replying to: dino001 (May 15, 2009 4:48 am)
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:46 am) I work in the software industry. No software company I know of has a union. Yet the working conditions are better than most industries, and I do not see any "sweat shop conditions" developing - even the jobs outsourced to India have a working environment which is comparable to US (if you visit the campus of an Infosys or Wipro in India, it is at par with any campus in Silicon valley). So, my point is - Motivated employees deliver value to the company (which then gets monetized in the form of higher revenues and profits). Unfortunately there will be industries where the only differentiation is cost, and "sweat shop" conditions may develop - but that is a part of the Anglo Saxon model of capitalism. For every 100 underpaid shoe assemblers in a Vietnamese factory of Nike, there is one Nike employee in the US vacationing in St. Moritz. To sum it up - The company management needs to maximize the value creation by its employees. In most cases, it will depend on their motivation - which depends on working conditions. So unless the management is blind to this (and therefore deserves to fail), it is not going to short change the employee..... |
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Replying to: andre1969 (May 15, 2009 5:42 am) |
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:46 am) Guess what? Even in the bad old days of the 1890s, the average American worker enjoyed the world's highest blue collar standard of living. Those sweat shops were ugly places, but most of the people who worked in them were recently-arrived immigrants who left for better jobs as soon as they learned some English & acquired marketable skills. Working 14-hour days in a lower Manhattan sweat shop beats hell out of a short, bloody career as cannon fodder in the Czar's army. Here's a basic economic fact: a strong & expanding economy does much, much more for a worker's standard of living than membership in a union. |
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:36 am) Yes, I wish my mother and step father had what your dad had also. Like Rocky you were raised UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. There were a lot of US that were not. We fought to get ahead. Saving as much as possible for that day we could enjoy it. Now the stinking government wants to give it all away to a bunch of overpaid UNSKILLED auto assemblers. We just have different views of the past and present based on our childhood memories. Vacation for us was visiting grandma in Oregon or CA. We NEVER took a vacation anywhere we did not stay with relatives. Even if all of us had to sleep in the car on long trips. That was two adults and 5 kids. I have NO pity on these people that did not think beyond next payday. 10,000 UAW workers filing for Bankruptcy when they lost their Overtime. Give me a break. Could not make it on $87k per year, so sad I just want to PUKE. |
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:36 am) I have no problem with that as long as you are not BK your company and asking for tax dollars to maintain that level of income. That is what the UAW workers are pleading for. They could care less about GM or Chysler. It is their own greed that drives them. I would bet you are not interested in sending the UAW a check to help them out.
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:55 am) That surprises me. After all, it was the Germans - not the Japanese or Koreans - who wiped the floor with your beloved Cadillac & made it into an object of ridicule for luxury car buyers. The head of the Toyota team that designed the first Lexus LS made it clear that their target was the S-class Mercedes. They didn't consider the Caddies of the time (late 80s) to be worthy rivals. Drive through the parking lot of any exclusive country club in the greater NY metro area & you'll see 6 or 8 German cars for every Lexus or Infiniti. I'm a little surprised that you aren't more anti-German.
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I bought shirts at Wal~Mart that fell apart the first time I washed them. However, I have an American made work shirt I bought in 1984 that is still with me and in good condition despite countless washings. What's better? A $30 shirt that lasts for years or three $10 shirts you have to throw away in few months? Lemko - the flaw in your analysis is that it doesn't take into account the point we were talking about - the impact of high wages on consumer prices. You're assuming that you'd be getting a better shirt for your $30.... however the context of these remarks is to point that with UAW level wages, you'd be getting the $10 quality shirt.....but paying $30 dollars for it. Increased wages don't add value to the shirt. That has to come from better design or materials. If labor costs are cheaper, you have the ability to add better design and materials at any given price point. Andre and gagrice - One of the things we've talked about at other times is that when you do inflation adjusted calculations, you pay about the same percent of salary for a car or a little less nowaday than you did in the late 50's or early 60's but you get a lot more content for the price - airbags, power windows, etc. Most of that is the result of material, design and worker productivity improvements, but most of those improvements in were forced material, design and worker productivity by price competition. This is where the Japanese forced quality improvements on Detroit - value for the dollar - and where the Koreans are putting pressure on the Japanese now. One of the last areas where there's been no foreign competition until recently was in major appliances. Now with the advent of foreign companies on the scene, we're finally starting to see some design changes. |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 15, 2009 7:51 am) |
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Replying to: jimbres (May 15, 2009 7:56 am)
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