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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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Replying to: lemko (May 14, 2009 10:25 am) When started in 50s, UAW outrageus pay was only possible because of monopolistic position of D3. It was exactly the unfairness and inequality of their position vs. rest of the country (ability to pass any excess cost on the consumer) that allowed them to collect those paychecks. When the monopoly was broken by imports, it had to change. But it didn't and once mighty companies are now shadows of themselves. I say it laud and clear: I don't give a dime for welfare of those 1-2 milion people affected by this crisis. Remaining 250+ milion Americans are much more important to me - and they benefit far more from better product manufactured more efficiently and more sold at lower price rather than overpriced piece of garbage - even if that product is to be build in Mexico, Brasil, Japan, Korea, Germany, or even China rather than here. Same pertains to any other product. Truth is simple and it hurts: either make it better, cheaper than others or move over and make room for those who can. No society ever prospered from supporting mediocrity. |
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Replying to: dino001 (May 15, 2009 4:48 am) In 1964 I wanted a new jeep type vehicle. The only one I could afford working at the phone company was a Toyota Land Cruiser. The Jeep was about $3500 and I paid $2400 for the new LC. So even back then the UAW was making the Domestics unaffordable for the average working man. That would be me at the phone company. Someone posted wages for UAW workers at that time. They were about 50% higher than mine. That corresponds to the difference in vehicle prices. So this has been a slow bleeding process the UAW has done to the Domestics. I personally could care less about the UAW workers. They did this with full knowledge that they were WAY OVERPAID for their unskilled positions. The UAW had the chance in 1998 to do the right thing and offer to take a cut in pay to keep jobs in the USA. They instead opted to strike costing GM $20 Billion. They did the same thing in 2005, 2007 & 2008. The sooner the UAW is decimated the better off the USA will be. More than likely my next vehicle will be built in Germany. As they are the only country with the foresight to offer diesel vehicles to the USA.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 15, 2009 5:04 am) What the hell was in that Jeep to make it so expensive? The only reference points I have from my family around that rough timeframe was a 1963 Mercury Monterrey 4-door hardtop that my Granddad bought new for about $3500, and a new 1966 Pontiac Catalina convertible that my Mom bought for around $3200. Compared to that, $3500 for a jeep just sounds extravagant...unless it was a well-equipped 4wd Wagoneer or something.
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"Just think, if all that stuff was made here - NOBODY would be out of work!" ...this naive thinking goes back to my shirt-making example...if union labor made shirts, then the shirts WalMart sells for $12 would probably cost $30...so, since everyone is on a limited budget, except Bill gates, the guy who has $60 to spend on shirts will either buy 5  $12 or 2 $30...fewer shirts sold, fewer shirts made, fewer people to make them... What union people need to understand is simple...they are now worthless and obsolete...they WERE needed, no, ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, in the 30s and 40s, but, like buggy-whip makers, they are no longer needed and they are a hindrance to corporate profitability...I am amused at the absurdity of unionizing gov't employees...why the union, are they going to work for some OTHER gov't??? While management has its faults (Aztec, Roadmaster, Gremlin, Pacer) the UAW set world records for poor workmanship, lousy work attitude, and lowest levels of intelligence exhibited by adult workers (by striking the only GM plants making money...how rocky calls them intelligent is beyond me)...what turned Americans away was poor workmanship...when they believe that the imports are better, they buy imports...UAW did nothing to try and change that attitude, but they did everything in their power to make sure that workmanship was substandard...after all, they were getting back at "the man"...did I mention their sheer ignorance and stupidity???...that getting back at "the man" meant their jobs disappeared into thin air, but they strike because THEY are the ignorant sheeple..
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Replying to: gagrice (May 14, 2009 3:17 pm) Now, if they're stupid enough to be buying 1/2 million $ houses, Escalades, boats, Ski-Doos, plasma televisions, and vacationing in the Bahamas, then they've got some fierocious money-management issues. I make way more than a UAW worker and I don't have or want any of those things. Outside of my cars, I live rather modestly. Heck, I can really be a super-miser if it weren't for my girlfriend! |
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 15, 2009 6:16 am) OK, let's assume labor unions are obsolete. What's to keep companies from reverting back to 1890s sweat shop conditions, company stores, physical abuse, a wanton disregard for safety and virtually slavery of the workforce? Can we trust them to treat their employees well? Is the government going to protect them? I wouldn't count on it! They didn't do a good job protecting wealthy investors from the likes of Bernie Madoff. Who's going to look out for a bunch of lower middle-class and working class schlubs?
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Replying to: gagrice (May 15, 2009 5:04 am) Well, if GM start importing cars exclusively from China or goes out of business altogether, I guess I will be too - a Mercedes S-Class or E-Class. I could buy a Ford product, but if find them as palatable as cold Brussels sprouts. I cannot for the life of me see myself in any Asian luxury car. I'm not paying a premium for what is essentially a Buick Park Avenue with a psychotic price tag. I better get used to the fierocious maintenance and repair bills that come with those Teutonic tanks. |
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Replying to: dino001 (May 15, 2009 4:48 am)
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Replying to: lemko (May 15, 2009 6:46 am) I work in the software industry. No software company I know of has a union. Yet the working conditions are better than most industries, and I do not see any "sweat shop conditions" developing - even the jobs outsourced to India have a working environment which is comparable to US (if you visit the campus of an Infosys or Wipro in India, it is at par with any campus in Silicon valley). So, my point is - Motivated employees deliver value to the company (which then gets monetized in the form of higher revenues and profits). Unfortunately there will be industries where the only differentiation is cost, and "sweat shop" conditions may develop - but that is a part of the Anglo Saxon model of capitalism. For every 100 underpaid shoe assemblers in a Vietnamese factory of Nike, there is one Nike employee in the US vacationing in St. Moritz. To sum it up - The company management needs to maximize the value creation by its employees. In most cases, it will depend on their motivation - which depends on working conditions. So unless the management is blind to this (and therefore deserves to fail), it is not going to short change the employee..... |
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Replying to: andre1969 (May 15, 2009 5:42 am) |
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