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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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Replying to: jimbres (Apr 26, 2009 12:51 pm) Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Apr 26, 2009 1:57 pm) The UAW AND CAW have screwed themselves out of jobs by being so greedy with their demands over the years along with the big 3 building bad quality vehicles. Yes their vehicles have been better in the last couple years, but it's too dam late. People have shown that they won't buy them and everyone is crying buy American, we are losing our jobs. The Japanese use a lot of the same suppliers as the big 3, but their quality demands are higher and their parts cost a little more in some cases to build. I can not see how anyone can think that an employee that works for the UAW OR CAW is more special then someone that does the same job as a person that is not in a union. There are more people losing thousands of dollars from their pensions every week then there are UAW and CAW workers in North America and I don't see anyone crying for them. Most of them worked for a heck of a lot less over the years and harder to have part of their pension taken away from them.
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Replying to: junkyardog (Apr 26, 2009 5:19 pm) That is exactly correct. Trying to get that message through the thick heads of those that worship the UAW, is not easy. They somehow feel UAW workers are superior to the millions of working people in this country that were not born into their Union. Millions of US citizens work just as hard or harder than the UAW workers, and make a heck of a lot less. And when it is time to retire only have SS or a small pension. What has Obama done or said about helping those that live on 401K investments? It seems the only worry is protecting the $millions given by unions to campaign funds. |
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junkyardog. The sales levels coming in had to stay at a high level of SUV's, pick-em-up's and whatever sedan's GM could cheaply produce every month, or GM wouldn't be able to pay their over-paid execs and standard everyday UAW workers. ...and in return to get GM to increase there pension plan so they can buy supplemental health insurance which would save GM billions and the retirees and active wouldn't lose any benefit coverage. That is how I personally would solve that issue. Oh, I see, you and the UAW will just strong-arm, or "get" as you say, GM to "increase their pension plan so they can buy supplemental health insurance..." rockford, do you hear yourself? GM is not making any money to increase UAW pension plan payouts! Or do you expect Obama funds to pay for this pension increase? Haven't we all learned on here that the UAW pensioners are making large amounts of monthly pension benefits after they retire? Why do they need an additional booster to just pay for supplemental health insurance? We're talking bleeding out here for GM funds, and this situation is nothing new. More is going out than is coming in. You can't just strike GM now to subsidize your glorious retirement. Newsflash-GM Joyride is Over! I would think that a good percentage of those people could entirely pay for their own health insurance when retired on those great UAW-earned GM monthly pension payments. Once again a healthy dose of reality is required here, rock. 
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 26, 2009 5:51 am) They didn't cut the wages on the low guys. Those jobs were created at $18 an hour with zero benefits. The UAW agreed to a two-tiered wage scale a few years before the 2007 contract. They knew people like you would bitch and moan if they didn't take it. The UAW however faught for benefits for it's new memebers. They just aren't as good. If they would of been a non-union shop they would of gotten a lot less. I wished you again look at the facts before going heel. It is across the board. Same goes for Retirees. When the AK Teamsters eliminated Health Care for the retirees it included those already retired as well as the next generation of retirees. That is fair and equal. Just take a long hard look at the UAW contracts and tell me they treat all the workers in a given job equally. That is what a REAL Union does. Again the the jobs were $18 bucks an hour with zero benefits. I was offered the opportunity while working at Pantex. They were called temp jobs with no guarantees thus I turned it down. I of course regret it now.  The UAW got them benefits and a status that went from temp to fulltime so they could get those benefits unlike your beloved Toyota that works there people part-time with fulltime hours with no benefits. imidazol97 has posted plenty of links proving this.  That is what I see with the UAW. The older workers making the big bucks with golden parachutes and the new hires taking the hit. You should be ashamed of that kind of treatment. And in this case I do not believe Reuther would have gone along with the contract. All for one, and One for all is not part of a two tier wage package. LOL you aren't going to convince me that you old timers in the Teamsters never screwed over the younger workers???? It is part of it. When the younger generation gets enough numbers then they can gain control of power. It has happened that way at every union I've worked for. I agree with you that the sacrifice should be shared but the facts are those contracts of having "temps" were negotiated with the union long before the first new hire that replaced a veteran happened. You really have nary a clue as to what happened. I know because I was contemplating leaving Texas for Michigan back in early 2006. I knew my marriage was doomed but I was still in denial at that time. If I would of left then it would of saved me tens of thousands of dollars.  Hardly. They get by with a little help from the Dad, me. My daughter is doing better in Indiana than they did here in CA. They should be closing on a home soon. They would NEVER have been able to buy a home in CA. My daughter and husband together do not make the base pay that a Delphi fork lift operator makes. Which is somewhere in the $65k to $80k+ per year without OT. Unless Oscar was lying on his bankruptcy case. You are freaken hilarious Gary. You keep on ranting half-truths as facts. Sounds like a few people on the radio I know you listen too *cough* Rush ummm Hannity A UAW forklift worker at Delphi starts out at $14 an hr. and if he is high seniority he might be cracking $16 an/hr. mark by now. Not hardly a $65K let alone $85K position. A material handler that worked at Delphi was making $28 bucks an hour before the restructuring and buyouts and that comes out to $58K and change WITHOUT OVERTIME GARY. You would have to work quite a bit of OT to hit $80K + a year mark back then. My father retired as a Job Setter and made $29 an/hr. He cracked the $60K mark. I am happy that you help your kids since you are financially able too. Despite all our disagreements I believe you are a good guy.  I remember you saying that one of your kids lives in Texas and is making the big bucks. I wish all of your kids the best. We all our facing a tough world right now. A level playing field would mean the UAW workers should be making the average for manufacturing throughout the USA. That is not the case. There are factories everywhere with people making $10 per hour and sometimes less. You should think about the playing field being level in the USA before you try leveling it across the globe. My ex brother in law slung hides in a packing plant until he went on SS. You ever go into a beef packing plant? You think that any job in the auto industry is any messier than scraping cow hides? Well he was always paid just above minimum wage in Modesto California. No incentive to better himself. Sound like folks you know in the UAW. The difference is in the UAW you make as much as many with expensive degrees. How fair and level is that playing field? I don't think you know what fair is. You are trying to be a thorn in my side ain't cha!!! The level playing field is in regards to american business competing on a equal playing field. What they pay there employees is between them and the individual employee or union. I lived around the #1 and #2 beef packing plants in the U.S. #1 is called SWIFT in Cactus, TX. On a humid rainy day you could smell it when the wind blew right at my FIL farm house where I lived for 3 years in Dalhart, TX. When I relocated to Dumas, TX one could smell it (Swift).....#2 Was the owned by Tyson and we could smell it when the wind blew right at Pantex. I never really cared for the air in that part of the country because it either smelled like cow and horse shit, death, oil.....I'll take the occassional smell of industry any day and if I want real fresh air I'm a short drive away from Lake Michigan.  or dads house on the lake in Pullman, MI. con't............
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That is why our friend really has no comprehension of business reality...just make them pay more into the fund, as tho money grows on trees...strike for more, but the company is going under...use the force of gov't to make them pay the UAW more, as tho there is any money left at all...the simple fact of youth and growing up in an entitlement welfare (UAW) family means that they just think that checks just come in the mail from nowhere...GM is going under, and they simply do NOT get it...the idiots in the UAW almost make the mentally handicapped look intelligent...they have this "pay for nothing in retirement" as tho it is the minimum for working, when nobody has that kind of pension, but if you can say "welfare mentality" you have the lack of intelligence and the attitude of your UAW member... Ten years from now they still won't get it... Junkyard: "The Japanese use a lot of the same suppliers as the big 3, but their quality demands are higher and their parts cost a little more in some cases to build."...are you saying that Toy and Hon may buy dashboards from Johnson Controls, just like GM, but they have Johnson make their parts to a higher quality standard???...if true, I am surprised...I did not know that suppliers are simply making components at different standards for different makers... Maybe someone working for a supplier can verify what they do, or how they cut corners, depending on who the buyer is...
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 26, 2009 9:13 am) GM's two tiered wage scale will start UAW workers out at $14/hr and they will top out at $16.50 an/hr. if and when they hire again. I'm not sure what the UAW workers hired in 2006 to replace the higher paid veterans will top out. They started out at $18 an hour. I believe dad said they can top out at $22 an hour or something but there benefits will never be what his was. The top pay right now is $28 an/hr. as some of the old timers are still employed. I fully expect another round of buyouts at GM to get the old timers to leave. Delphi offered a round of buyouts last month and a lot more took it than what they expected.  I hope that breaks it down a little pal. -Rocky |
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