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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16733 messages, Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 9:47 PM
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 26, 2009 9:24 am) Yeah, government is responsible for national defense, the court system & a few other things, none of which include "helping" (whatever that means) the American auto industry. Remember, government can't do anything without our tax dollars. Why should I open my wallet to pay for government "help" to the D2 & the UAW? What's in it for me? If both GM & Chrysler disappear tomorrow, there will still be plenty of cars made by other companies in the showrooms when I'm ready to buy. Go ahead & "help" the D2 & the UAW if you want to, but spend your own money. Socialism doesn't work, & I don't want to pay for it.
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Replying to: motorcity6 (Apr 26, 2009 9:36 am) So you admit it then? 
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" I also would make sure EFCA passes to unionize the transplants."...if any import employee is watching, they will see what will happen to them if they unionize, and that will be job loss...it will take awhile, but it will happen... Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble, but I do get it about the ripple effect...but that is simply a symptom of what is to come, which I still blame on poor UAW work quality and featherbedding rules...you refuse to accept that the UAW has been the CAUSE of the downfall of the Big 3, so you are looking at the effects of what is happening, but you are in absolute denial about the cause...the UAW created a house of cards...a house of cards that stood for almost 50 years, because the wind was not strong enough to blow it down (meaning that they were able to pass off car price increases for years)...now the "quality chickens" have come home to roost and it isn't pretty...it took until now for the wind to get strong to blow over the house of cards...the wind is consumers going on strike for the UAW products...like it or not, whether bad design or rotten union (I pick the union) your products either do not sell, or your workers are reciving compensation that cannot be paid any longer, which they were never worth to start with...remember, the purpose of Bankruptcy is to break contracts and remove debt... You mentioned that people making cars cannot afford to buy their own product...well, no wonder!!!...when I saw that $40,000 Chevrolet outside BJ's warehouse (like a Sams Club) I almost fell over...GM's base brand, designed for those just starting out (Sloan's model) was $40,000???...that means it goes up from there with other GM brands...and you wonder why people cannot afford to buy one???...you think I am going to spend $40K of my hard earned money on a CAR, especially a UAW-built car???...are you insane???...even if I don't buy cars for their resale value, that $40K Chevy would be worth under $20K in about 6 months...never mind the others, I know I can't afford that car, and that is a base Chevy... As stated earlier, it isn't that wages have not kept up, it is that cars (and houses) grew in cost far in excess of the rate everything else grew...if you think a $40K Chevy is normal, then YOU need your head examined, esp when it is less than half that in a year...a 2008 STS was on sale here for $29,900, only 1 year old...probably over $55K new...if they were selling (asking price, would take less I am sure) it for $29,900, they offered the seller on his trade-in under $25K...so here we are in the middle of the 2009 model year, and a one year old Caddy was traded in for less than half of its pruchase price when new...rocky, the car simply costs too much, and UAW labor is the blame for that...Chevy at $40K new, Caddy at $55K new, under $30K one year later...they depreciate because they were NEVER worth it from the start...it sn't that people don't make enough money, it is that the cars are overpriced at $40-50,000... Just because something has a price does NOT make it worth it, and a rapid-depreciating car like anything built by the UAW was never worth it to start...THAT is the problem... BTW, that goes for housing, too...there is no house that was worth $100K in 2005, then 175K in 2006, and then 250K in 2007...that market was inflated by lying appraisers, who are probably the ones who really should be sitting in jail, because they are the ones that banks look to for valid appraisals...what you see in the housing market is NOT a depression, but a beginning of a return to normal and proper values...the house that was $300K in 2007 was only worth $175K anyway, but the frenzy and madness of crowds send it skyrocketing...it is simply coming back to ground level... No, rocky, there simply is NO Chevrolet worth a sticker of $40K, and when you wake up and figure this out, you will have solved the problem of the Big 3...your beloved UAW...plain and simple...T This entire midwest depression has been caused by overpaying unskilled UAW people over the years at a rate that was sustainable until NOW, and now the money is gone...just like madoff's pryramid has crumbled, so must the entire pay structure of the UAW...they were never worth it, they aren't worth it, and they can no longer be paid anything like the past, because, like it or not, the market has spoken and they ain't buying no more...Obama promised change, and you got what you voted for...
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Replying to: jimbres (Apr 26, 2009 12:51 pm) Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Apr 26, 2009 1:57 pm) The UAW AND CAW have screwed themselves out of jobs by being so greedy with their demands over the years along with the big 3 building bad quality vehicles. Yes their vehicles have been better in the last couple years, but it's too dam late. People have shown that they won't buy them and everyone is crying buy American, we are losing our jobs. The Japanese use a lot of the same suppliers as the big 3, but their quality demands are higher and their parts cost a little more in some cases to build. I can not see how anyone can think that an employee that works for the UAW OR CAW is more special then someone that does the same job as a person that is not in a union. There are more people losing thousands of dollars from their pensions every week then there are UAW and CAW workers in North America and I don't see anyone crying for them. Most of them worked for a heck of a lot less over the years and harder to have part of their pension taken away from them.
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Replying to: junkyardog (Apr 26, 2009 5:19 pm) That is exactly correct. Trying to get that message through the thick heads of those that worship the UAW, is not easy. They somehow feel UAW workers are superior to the millions of working people in this country that were not born into their Union. Millions of US citizens work just as hard or harder than the UAW workers, and make a heck of a lot less. And when it is time to retire only have SS or a small pension. What has Obama done or said about helping those that live on 401K investments? It seems the only worry is protecting the $millions given by unions to campaign funds. |
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junkyardog. The sales levels coming in had to stay at a high level of SUV's, pick-em-up's and whatever sedan's GM could cheaply produce every month, or GM wouldn't be able to pay their over-paid execs and standard everyday UAW workers. ...and in return to get GM to increase there pension plan so they can buy supplemental health insurance which would save GM billions and the retirees and active wouldn't lose any benefit coverage. That is how I personally would solve that issue. Oh, I see, you and the UAW will just strong-arm, or "get" as you say, GM to "increase their pension plan so they can buy supplemental health insurance..." rockford, do you hear yourself? GM is not making any money to increase UAW pension plan payouts! Or do you expect Obama funds to pay for this pension increase? Haven't we all learned on here that the UAW pensioners are making large amounts of monthly pension benefits after they retire? Why do they need an additional booster to just pay for supplemental health insurance? We're talking bleeding out here for GM funds, and this situation is nothing new. More is going out than is coming in. You can't just strike GM now to subsidize your glorious retirement. Newsflash-GM Joyride is Over! I would think that a good percentage of those people could entirely pay for their own health insurance when retired on those great UAW-earned GM monthly pension payments. Once again a healthy dose of reality is required here, rock. 
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 26, 2009 5:51 am) They didn't cut the wages on the low guys. Those jobs were created at $18 an hour with zero benefits. The UAW agreed to a two-tiered wage scale a few years before the 2007 contract. They knew people like you would bitch and moan if they didn't take it. The UAW however faught for benefits for it's new memebers. They just aren't as good. If they would of been a non-union shop they would of gotten a lot less. I wished you again look at the facts before going heel. It is across the board. Same goes for Retirees. When the AK Teamsters eliminated Health Care for the retirees it included those already retired as well as the next generation of retirees. That is fair and equal. Just take a long hard look at the UAW contracts and tell me they treat all the workers in a given job equally. That is what a REAL Union does. Again the the jobs were $18 bucks an hour with zero benefits. I was offered the opportunity while working at Pantex. They were called temp jobs with no guarantees thus I turned it down. I of course regret it now.  The UAW got them benefits and a status that went from temp to fulltime so they could get those benefits unlike your beloved Toyota that works there people part-time with fulltime hours with no benefits. imidazol97 has posted plenty of links proving this. That is what I see with the UAW. The older workers making the big bucks with golden parachutes and the new hires taking the hit. You should be ashamed of that kind of treatment. And in this case I do not believe Reuther would have gone along with the contract. All for one, and One for all is not part of a two tier wage package. LOL you aren't going to convince me that you old timers in the Teamsters never screwed over the younger workers???? It is part of it. When the younger generation gets enough numbers then they can gain control of power. It has happened that way at every union I've worked for. I agree with you that the sacrifice should be shared but the facts are those contracts of having "temps" were negotiated with the union long before the first new hire that replaced a veteran happened. You really have nary a clue as to what happened. I know because I was contemplating leaving Texas for Michigan back in early 2006. I knew my marriage was doomed but I was still in denial at that time. If I would of left then it would of saved me tens of thousands of dollars.  Hardly. They get by with a little help from the Dad, me. My daughter is doing better in Indiana than they did here in CA. They should be closing on a home soon. They would NEVER have been able to buy a home in CA. My daughter and husband together do not make the base pay that a Delphi fork lift operator makes. Which is somewhere in the $65k to $80k+ per year without OT. Unless Oscar was lying on his bankruptcy case. You are freaken hilarious Gary. You keep on ranting half-truths as facts. Sounds like a few people on the radio I know you listen too *cough* Rush ummm Hannity A UAW forklift worker at Delphi starts out at $14 an hr. and if he is high seniority he might be cracking $16 an/hr. mark by now. Not hardly a $65K let alone $85K position. A material handler that worked at Delphi was making $28 bucks an hour before the restructuring and buyouts and that comes out to $58K and change WITHOUT OVERTIME GARY. You would have to work quite a bit of OT to hit $80K + a year mark back then. My father retired as a Job Setter and made $29 an/hr. He cracked the $60K mark. I am happy that you help your kids since you are financially able too. Despite all our disagreements I believe you are a good guy.  I remember you saying that one of your kids lives in Texas and is making the big bucks. I wish all of your kids the best. We all our facing a tough world right now. A level playing field would mean the UAW workers should be making the average for manufacturing throughout the USA. That is not the case. There are factories everywhere with people making $10 per hour and sometimes less. You should think about the playing field being level in the USA before you try leveling it across the globe. My ex brother in law slung hides in a packing plant until he went on SS. You ever go into a beef packing plant? You think that any job in the auto industry is any messier than scraping cow hides? Well he was always paid just above minimum wage in Modesto California. No incentive to better himself. Sound like folks you know in the UAW. The difference is in the UAW you make as much as many with expensive degrees. How fair and level is that playing field? I don't think you know what fair is. You are trying to be a thorn in my side ain't cha!!! The level playing field is in regards to american business competing on a equal playing field. What they pay there employees is between them and the individual employee or union. I lived around the #1 and #2 beef packing plants in the U.S. #1 is called SWIFT in Cactus, TX. On a humid rainy day you could smell it when the wind blew right at my FIL farm house where I lived for 3 years in Dalhart, TX. When I relocated to Dumas, TX one could smell it (Swift).....#2 Was the owned by Tyson and we could smell it when the wind blew right at Pantex. I never really cared for the air in that part of the country because it either smelled like cow and horse shit, death, oil.....I'll take the occassional smell of industry any day and if I want real fresh air I'm a short drive away from Lake Michigan.  or dads house on the lake in Pullman, MI. con't............
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