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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: rockylee (Apr 25, 2009 9:41 pm) I don't want to know the average worker's salary. I want to know the top salaries and the lowest and the distribution between those. I like histograms or box-and-whisker plots of those things. Same for the UAW at GM. I want to know what the top, older guys are still making. I don't want to hear about the average. The average can be lowered by the poor guys who got hired in at the lower new salary that still haven't been bumped out. I have nothing against the older UAW workers making a good salary, but I don't think they need an outrageous salary while the new hires were eating the dust on starvation salaries and then use the average to fool the numbers. The older, seniority UAW workers should have taken definite cuts a decade ago. I always believe figures lie if not analyzed properly.
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Replying to: rockylee (Apr 25, 2009 8:21 pm) I already posted a story that the whole sequence is more than just UAW and high salaries. Indeed that includes management. All managements make mistakes. But when it was time to adjust the last couple of decades the UAW kept on going up. Many people don't want to accept the government could have helped with this situation through the decades. Guvment has some responsibility to the citizens.
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The Czar appointed by the Govt to oversee the Auto guys in the motorcity sole purpose is to make sure the UAW doesn't get the screwed in the reorganization process..The govt has not a clue on product lines except it has to be small, dangerous, and something with a short cruising range..Future long distance travel is a no-no, especially by car.. The future UAW will be a community organizing group which will make it viable to receive govt funds, your tax dollars, and joining the well-known Acorn plus the Americorps which between them have been awarded $ 10,000,000,000 to carry out protests and neighborhood projects including Election Fraud.. Someone mentioned high pay for teachers in retirement plus full health benefits and wondering where the money is coming from?? Remember AIG and the $100,000,000,000 of our tax dollars--yep they hold the majority of the NEA pensions... Don't worry the UAW will end up sucking up our tax $$$$s. It's the liberal payback time.. Maybe some of you think the Obama "Shovel Ready Projects" will rescue the UAW folks, no back-breaking work for the loyalists..It's vacation time with pay, thanks to our new folks in DC.. Lots of beer drinking time with almost full pay, isn't Captialism Great!!!! Old Henry Ford had the right idea about unionism, he fought it to the end, and of course he lost, but it wasn't a cakewalk for the workers..Any laid off UAW workers will draw unemployment benefits until at least the next election 2010... If you are thinking about buying a foreign car assembled in the USA, better get one before the UAW organizes the bunch, for the quality will hit the bricks..I am sure that the current govt bunch have laid the groundwork for unionizing the Asians..w/o Card-check laws.. Love my country.
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Replying to: motorcity6 (Apr 26, 2009 9:36 am) That's not a correct statement to assume that UAW in a plant would cause poor product. The BIG THREE gave the workers the parts to put together and oversaw the assembly.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 26, 2009 9:24 am) Yeah, government is responsible for national defense, the court system & a few other things, none of which include "helping" (whatever that means) the American auto industry. Remember, government can't do anything without our tax dollars. Why should I open my wallet to pay for government "help" to the D2 & the UAW? What's in it for me? If both GM & Chrysler disappear tomorrow, there will still be plenty of cars made by other companies in the showrooms when I'm ready to buy. Go ahead & "help" the D2 & the UAW if you want to, but spend your own money. Socialism doesn't work, & I don't want to pay for it.
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Replying to: motorcity6 (Apr 26, 2009 9:36 am) So you admit it then? 
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" I also would make sure EFCA passes to unionize the transplants."...if any import employee is watching, they will see what will happen to them if they unionize, and that will be job loss...it will take awhile, but it will happen... Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble, but I do get it about the ripple effect...but that is simply a symptom of what is to come, which I still blame on poor UAW work quality and featherbedding rules...you refuse to accept that the UAW has been the CAUSE of the downfall of the Big 3, so you are looking at the effects of what is happening, but you are in absolute denial about the cause...the UAW created a house of cards...a house of cards that stood for almost 50 years, because the wind was not strong enough to blow it down (meaning that they were able to pass off car price increases for years)...now the "quality chickens" have come home to roost and it isn't pretty...it took until now for the wind to get strong to blow over the house of cards...the wind is consumers going on strike for the UAW products...like it or not, whether bad design or rotten union (I pick the union) your products either do not sell, or your workers are reciving compensation that cannot be paid any longer, which they were never worth to start with...remember, the purpose of Bankruptcy is to break contracts and remove debt... You mentioned that people making cars cannot afford to buy their own product...well, no wonder!!!...when I saw that $40,000 Chevrolet outside BJ's warehouse (like a Sams Club) I almost fell over...GM's base brand, designed for those just starting out (Sloan's model) was $40,000???...that means it goes up from there with other GM brands...and you wonder why people cannot afford to buy one???...you think I am going to spend $40K of my hard earned money on a CAR, especially a UAW-built car???...are you insane???...even if I don't buy cars for their resale value, that $40K Chevy would be worth under $20K in about 6 months...never mind the others, I know I can't afford that car, and that is a base Chevy... As stated earlier, it isn't that wages have not kept up, it is that cars (and houses) grew in cost far in excess of the rate everything else grew...if you think a $40K Chevy is normal, then YOU need your head examined, esp when it is less than half that in a year...a 2008 STS was on sale here for $29,900, only 1 year old...probably over $55K new...if they were selling (asking price, would take less I am sure) it for $29,900, they offered the seller on his trade-in under $25K...so here we are in the middle of the 2009 model year, and a one year old Caddy was traded in for less than half of its pruchase price when new...rocky, the car simply costs too much, and UAW labor is the blame for that...Chevy at $40K new, Caddy at $55K new, under $30K one year later...they depreciate because they were NEVER worth it from the start...it sn't that people don't make enough money, it is that the cars are overpriced at $40-50,000... Just because something has a price does NOT make it worth it, and a rapid-depreciating car like anything built by the UAW was never worth it to start...THAT is the problem... BTW, that goes for housing, too...there is no house that was worth $100K in 2005, then 175K in 2006, and then 250K in 2007...that market was inflated by lying appraisers, who are probably the ones who really should be sitting in jail, because they are the ones that banks look to for valid appraisals...what you see in the housing market is NOT a depression, but a beginning of a return to normal and proper values...the house that was $300K in 2007 was only worth $175K anyway, but the frenzy and madness of crowds send it skyrocketing...it is simply coming back to ground level... No, rocky, there simply is NO Chevrolet worth a sticker of $40K, and when you wake up and figure this out, you will have solved the problem of the Big 3...your beloved UAW...plain and simple...T This entire midwest depression has been caused by overpaying unskilled UAW people over the years at a rate that was sustainable until NOW, and now the money is gone...just like madoff's pryramid has crumbled, so must the entire pay structure of the UAW...they were never worth it, they aren't worth it, and they can no longer be paid anything like the past, because, like it or not, the market has spoken and they ain't buying no more...Obama promised change, and you got what you voted for...
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Replying to: jimbres (Apr 26, 2009 12:51 pm) Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Apr 26, 2009 1:57 pm) The UAW AND CAW have screwed themselves out of jobs by being so greedy with their demands over the years along with the big 3 building bad quality vehicles. Yes their vehicles have been better in the last couple years, but it's too dam late. People have shown that they won't buy them and everyone is crying buy American, we are losing our jobs. The Japanese use a lot of the same suppliers as the big 3, but their quality demands are higher and their parts cost a little more in some cases to build. I can not see how anyone can think that an employee that works for the UAW OR CAW is more special then someone that does the same job as a person that is not in a union. There are more people losing thousands of dollars from their pensions every week then there are UAW and CAW workers in North America and I don't see anyone crying for them. Most of them worked for a heck of a lot less over the years and harder to have part of their pension taken away from them.
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