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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16705 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: dino001 (Apr 25, 2009 6:24 am)
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Replying to: jimbres (Apr 25, 2009 7:58 am) Look at the roots of the UAW. Reuther was as close to a card carrying Communist as anyone in this country. To make him anything else is trying to revise history. He spent time in the Soviet Union and shaped the UAW to be like their Unions. Reuther was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, the son of a socialist brewery worker who had emigrated from Germany. In his entire career he was close to his brothers and co-workers Victor Reuther and Roy Reuther. Reuther joined the Ford Motor Company but was laid off as the Great Depression worsened. He and his brothers went to Europe and then worked 1933-35 in an auto plant at Gorky in the Soviet Union. What Reuther and the UAW would like are the entitlements of Socialism without the political control. When in fact they are inseparable. When you control the companies you take their freedom. That in turn takes everyone's freedom. Even those that seem to be in control. |
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Replying to: dino001 (Apr 25, 2009 6:24 am) Read the post again: "Lack of adaptation by the Big Three..." "Lack of foresight in government..." I'm not sure where the rest of your post is relevant to mine. Mine was that the UAW is partly at fault along with many others who didn't foresee what people like the Chinese have; they require GM to be buddied up with a Chinese company to build cars there. Perhaps the US should have done thus.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 25, 2009 8:39 am)  GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car) Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car 1) Is it any wonder that: a) "Detroit automakers declined to discuss the programs in detail or say exactly how much they are spending," and b) the Big Three asked for a bailout after spending more than $4 billion on an outdated "jobs bank" program over the last four years? 2) If the Big Three hadn't wasted an estimated $4 billion from 2005-2008 paying idled "workers" not to "work," what could they have done with that money? Well, they could have produced about 200,000 cars at an average cost of $20,000 or built 8 new factories at an average cost of $550 million. 3) Speculation: Without the burden of the jobs bank, and the $4.2 billion estimated cost of the jobs bank over the last four years, the Big 3 wouldn't be begging for a handout today. Even if the hourly wages of the Big Three are now comparable to wages at Toyota and Honda, and even if the productivity gap has narrowed, the cost of the job banks to Big Three is probably one of the biggest factors contributing to their competitive disadvantage and one of the biggest reasons they are facing bankruptcy today. If the UAW had agreed five years ago to end the jobs bank, the Big Three wouldn't be in so much trouble today, and wouldn't have gone to taxpayers begging for a handout. Funny how both the financial industry and the auto industry went begging after repeated failure to understand their respective markets and businesses and in the end the taxpayers foot the bill. From now on, there is no right or wrong just re-balancing. The market will adjust to the best product manufacturers be they in autos or financial instruments. The UAW will morph into a small auto financial system...much like a credit union. They will actually make money moving forward as their model changes as well. Regards, OW |
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"I think Darwin was referring to species, not individuals. Individuals tend to survive better by cooperating."...and I think you are right...overall, it was species that would survive or die... But, as long as the species DOES survive, there will always be those individuals, esp in homo sapien, who rise to the top and survive "better"...the UAW was one such animal, doing better than most for the lack of skills they had...but, again, they did not relaize how good they had it, so they killed the golden goose that fed them...now, they will die, but the species will live on... I read today, as I predicted, that GM will dump Pontiac, as it only has a few worthwhile models, nothing to build a brand name on...they may sell it, but who would buy it???...they will salvage the G series and absorb it into Chevrolet...as I said...Chevy, Caddy and a Truck brand, call it Chevy or GMC...the rest is gone... Quoted from circlew: GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles rocky, if GM cannot make money making over 9 million vehicles, something is wrong with their cost structure...can you spell U-A-W??? I assume by now the reality of what the rest of the country (non-UAW) has known for decades is finally sinking through...they are not wroth what they have been paid for years...did they get thru the free market of capitalism???...yes...but that same free market has come back to bite them because they priced themselves out of the market...the market giveth and the market taketh away...now they will wither away and the Big 3 will slash their cost structure and start acting like a normal company...too bad they waited 20-plus years to do it (back in 1983 or 1984, after GM's first losing year since, like 1925, Roger Smith could have taken a long strike and broken the UAW...like a fool he capitulated in about six weeks to their demands...he could have been a hero to the nation by breaking the UAW but he gave in...so it took another 20-plus years but it just may happen, and this nation will certainly be better for it)... |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 25, 2009 8:39 am) Why? Are you saying that the U.S. government should not have allowed Toyota & Honda to build factories here unless they first "buddied up" with GM & Chrysler? You'd expect this sort of meddling in business from the Chinese government. They're Communists, after all, & Communists believe that the Party should call the shots. So if you're a Communist, this makes sense. But if you believe in free markets & private enterprise, the idea that government should be allowed to do this ought to scare you. Do you think that the bureaucrats have some kind of hidden talent for picking winners & losers? I certainly don't. From where I sit, the market is working just as it should. GM & Chrysler failed to reduce legacy costs by wresting concessions from the UAW when times were good & now they're on the verge of bankruptcy. The D2 aren't innocent victims of circumstances beyond their control; they made bad business decisions & now they'll pay the price. That's fine with me. That's how the world is supposed to work. I guess I'd make a pretty bad Communist. |
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Replying to: jimbres (Apr 25, 2009 9:25 am) I think you'd better check what is happening today in USA. >GM & Chrysler failed to reduce legacy costs by wresting concessions from the UAW Was Ford paying UAW below the wage rate at GM/C? That's what the post suggests. Ford has a role in here too. All three were played the same way by UAW with strikes against the one making the most money at the time while the other two continued to produce and sell cars.
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Replying to: rockylee (Apr 19, 2009 2:29 am) |
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General Motors (GM) disclosed in an SEC filing Friday afternoon that the GM Common Stock Fund, an option in the automaker’s employee savings plans that allowed workers to choose to invest some of their retirement money in the company’s stock, has sold all of its GM shares, and now holds only short-term fixed income investments and money market instruments. GM explained in the filing that the manager of the fund, State Street Bank and Trust, under certain circumstances is specifically authorized to do exactly what it did: : * If “there is a serious question concerning General Motors…short-term viability as a going concern without resorting to bankruptcy proceedings.” * Or if “there is no possibility in the short-term of recouping any substantial proceeds from the sale of stock in bankruptcy proceedings.” In the filing, GM said that “State Street made the determination that this standard had been met due to the economic climate and the circumstances surrounding GM’s business.” GM said the fund began selling the stock on March 31, and completed the sales today. The fund is going to be liquidated, and will no longer be offered as an option on GM retirement plans. Draw your own conclusions. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 25, 2009 10:31 am) I don't have to like it. Let the market work. Most of us will be better off. Was Ford paying UAW below the wage rate at GM/C? That's what the post suggests. Ford has a role in here too. Sure it does, but Ford made one brilliant business decision that bought it some breathing space. Back in 2006, before the credit markets went haywire, Ford's then-new CEO, Alan Mulally, called in the banks & borrowed every nickel he could on favorable terms. As a result, Ford is much better capitalized today & stands a decent chance of solving its legacy cost problems & bringing new products to market before its money runs out. Ford isn't out of the woods yet, but it will almost certainly outlast at least one of its rivals & pick up additional market share. That's the market at work - rewarding good decisions. All three were played the same way by UAW with strikes against the one making the most money at the time while the other two continued to produce and sell cars. That gambit worked as well as it did for as long as it did because the D3 worried more about losing sales to one another than they did about outside - foreign - rivals. Convinced that imports would never amount to much in this market, the D3 purchased labor peace by giving the UAW whatever it wanted & then passing on the cost to us. They figured that we'd pay it without protesting. In other words, they behaved like a regulated utility with a monopoly on their customer base. Competition? What competition? People have to buy from us, they figured. Where else can they go? They'll pay whatever we charge. That strategy worked until we, the consumers, decided that we didn't have to put up with it. We could take our business elsewhere, & we did. The D3's market share dropped but their labor costs didn't. As we see now, they were too stupid & short-sighted to deal with that until it was too late. Let 'em die. I'd like to see Ford get through this, but if it doesn't, that's OK.
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