Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
16738 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Abraham Lincoln: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:17 am) Dad says the UAW tried when Roger Smith was CEO but when the federal mediator came to help resolve the contract he told the union you can't tell management how to run the company thus that was that. That is all I know. -Rocky |
|
|
gagrice: he could afford a ticket INTO Norway, but he will never get out...I am always amused at people who think it is better elsewhere...this is no utopian paradise in the USA, but we do seem to have a fair amount of freedom...and much of the freedom enjoyed in other nations around the world is simply because WE have fought for their freedom, shedding more blood for everyone else than they did for their own, except maybe Stalin's 20 million...plus, it does seem that people from all over the world want to come here, so even tho I have no experience outside the US, others seem to think this is the place to be... Most of the planet probably lives in some kind of poverty, so the fact that we can move up in the economic scale and not stuck in some caste system, seems to be attractive to some...plus, when you add up all the poor here who have homes or apartments, air conditioning, daily food, a car or 2, they are not so poor after all...there is NO cosmic right to just HAVE things because you want them, but we have so much here...as someone said, I don't remember where I read it, "I want to go to America where even the poor people are fat"...obviously coming from someone where there really is gross starvation and extreme poverty... fintail: "Should capitalism be unregulated to the point where an oligarchy develops - as the trickle-downers pretty much want to see? Is governance by corporate interests any better or worse than governance by socialists? Do the masses have any reason to trust the top 1% any more than they have to trust meddling civil servants?"...all good points to ponder...the rich will always be in control simply because the poor are too ignorant to barely run their own lives...now, I don't want the rich running MY life, but the rich will always drift to the top, so, maybe we can just get them to leave us alone...that, to me, was the point of the theory of limited gov't in this country...coin money, provide for the common defense, and (slightly)regulate interstate commerce, and then GET GOV'T OUT OF THE WAY, and let citizens live their lives...for those who make it, great, those who don't, tough cookies...let us live in liberty and freedom and stay out of our daily lives...let the churches take care of the downtrodden, because the churches will see that they get some work out of them, even if it is just sweeping the church floor (and not at $25/hour with benefits)...once welfare became impersonal with a gov't bureaucrat, we first lost control of the recipient (if we pay their bills we have every right to control them) and we now have a gov't bureaucrat with an interest in keeping them on welfare, or else the bureaucrat's job goes away... There will always be poor among us, simply because many have no initiative, no work ethic, no desire to improve, and just want to exist and be paid to do nothing... Wait a minute: no initiative, no work ethic, no desire to improve, and just want to exist and be paid to do nothing>...that sums up the UAW to a T...at least the laid off floorsweepers will be able to keep the churches clean...  
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:46 pm) I think that pretty well proves that paying an unskilled worker in an Auto factory $15 per hour is SUPER generous. At least our gas does not have $6 per gallon tax like Norway. When you have a fat cat King you got to make him look good. The income tax starts at 35% and goes to 50%. So you take home a lot less than here. And their economy is tanking with the low price of oil. They got nothing else to support them. |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:30 am) They did not take a cut. GM was pushing for a two-tiered wage scale for the new hires. They told the old timers we will allow you to keep what you got if you allow us when we buy a lot of you out and replace your old jobs with new hires a two-tiered wage scale with cuts here and there benefits wise. They agreed along with the VEBA. How much are the retirees now paying for gold plated health care? It's not gold plated anymore. Dad has a PPO and has some out of pocket expenses. I think he pays like $800 bucks a year or something plus copays. You do realize your dream of health care for all will not be even close to the plan the retirees are now getting. No dental or eyecare is in the plan. Being on Medicare as the plan will emulate does not help when you go to the dentist. We don't know yet what is and won't be covered unless you have a inside look at BO or Congress plan???  I realize it won't be anything like private insurance plans but it's better than nothing which is a very good possibility that might be what they get from GM. My wife and I just paid $302 to have our teeth cleaned. Heck we need pet health care. A trip to the vet for our cat was $255. And he is healthy. He was not eating and the vet said give him the cheap Friskies canned food and that worked. Trust me dad would switch retirement benefits with you gagrice in a New York second. I would love to have your retirement when I get to your age. It's not likely going to happen.  I am a animal lover thus what kind of kitty do you have or is he a mix??? I love Beth's cat. Her name is Skitty. Only Beth, could come up with such a crazy name. She purchased her out of a cage in Mexico for $2 bucks. Back to your la la land beliefs on GM and the economy. You have NEVER addressed WHY GM was losing $BILLIONS when the economy was booming from 2004-2007. What??? Boooming??? Are you nuts???? You really need to go back to school yourself and take some economic classes. Our economy was losing millions of jobs back then and just because the stock market was artifically high with no meat to back up those numbers and the housing market was being driven up by ARM's doesn't make the economy sound. Shit that's right All Wagoner years in control. Don't give me fair trade or currency manipulation. That just does not fly. They could not sell their crap cars at way below the competition with employee pricing and tons of cash on the hood. Why was Wagoner building crap cars from the time he took over till he was pushed out. 2 or 3 winners out of 30+ models is not a good reference for Wagoner to put on his CEO resume'. Wagoner couldn't turn a giant ship like GM around over night. With years of abuse from Roger and Jack Smith it was going to take years to develop the R&D needed to steer that big ship in safer waters. Remember GM isn't some Ma and Pa outfit like you were use to working for thus it takes A LOT longer!!!!! -Rocky
|
|
|
Replying to: marsha7 (Apr 19, 2009 5:38 am) I sure hope so!!! Maybe Beth has been wearing turtle neck sweaters...that is NOT the way to better sales... She looks hot in turtle neck sweaters but it's been way to warm around here to be wearing one of those. She looked very "hot" on Saturday when we went out.  This country grew over the last 2 hundred years by being as capitalistic as possible...your desire for more and more socialism is simply a flaw in the mind... It is the only alternative for people to regain control of there government and get a piece of the pie. The global capitalist don't have my best interests at heart.  In capitalism, there will be winners and losers...and the losers always say it isn't fair, but they never realize that the winners move us forward...Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, could they have thrived in a socialistic environment like Russia, (Norway, as you put it)???...I don't think so... Yeah they could because there are a lot of billionaires in Europe's socialistic society. I know Germany has a few multi-billionaires despite it's small size. The difference is they wouldn't be able to exploit the people quite as easily. The very fact that there are winners means that there will be losers...but losers in our form of capitalism still means that jobs will be had for the masses from the business, not from government 5-year plans...we are in a changing environment and I am of the thought that the gov't should step back and let capitalism and the market do what it will, rather than step in and control it... We have had deregulation for years now and look at where it's gotten us. The government needs to play a role in order to keep out the excesses "greed" of the elites. When people jobs are on the line they make sure things get done to keep the people happy. That is why I welcome more government involvement. More and more critical readings about FDR and the Depression say that FDR and his interventionism only prolonged the Depression and that WWII got us out of it...while we will never know the actual truth of the matter, it does make one wonder if FDR did nothing, would we have come out of it much sooner...after all, we had depressions in the century before FDR, and there was no gov't interference, and we never read about those, simply because they were nothing to be concerned with...I always wonder if the "Great Depression" would have been so "great" if FDR sat back and let market forces simply do what they do... Who says that the Misean Scholars you worship??? FDR is arguably the greatest president of all-time. His job was simpler due to the fact that he wasn't competing on a global scale and we didn't have the treasonist think tanks in power. People were proud to be and buy american back in those days. That is the main difference and we have lost that nationalism. And now you want even more socialism...I cannot respect that thought process...if Norway is so good, why don't you simply go there???...I am sure they can train you in some useful job... I would rather be a part of the movement here. -Rocky |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:44 am) Well when I looked at going on vacation there a few years ago it was going to be $2400 bucks per person. We decided to just go to Michigan, instead. Funny your cousins moved to Canada, mine moved out of Toronto and now live in Branson, MO. They were so happy when they got their US citizenship. They want NO PART or a government sponsored health care plan. They been there and done that. The high taxes far out weighed the benefits in Canada. Yeah that is funny. Mine looked at it as this country is going to hell and despite the higher taxes the benefits out weighed the taxes. They are very happy they made the move. Just like the days of the buggy builders. Reality has changed. The dirty industry jobs in the USA are gone NEVER to return. And companies were bailing out of the Midwest in the 1960s for many and various reasons. The poor workforce being the leading cause. They found they could get the same level of unskilled labor in the South or out of the country as they could in the Midwest. By the way they started leaving PA long before they did the Midwest. Unfortunately you are only able to see one side of the coin. Perhaps you are right and they will never return. I'm holding out hope that they will. We just need somebody like Virgil Bernero to become president and it can be done. it's going to take a great leader with the masses behind him/her to accomplish that goal. -Rocky |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:51 am) Ummmm I beg to differ. If we really counted everyone who has ran out of unemployment benefits the percentage would be A LOT higher. Were times tough back then??? I don't doubt it but not nearly as bad as they are today because at least back then if you acquired a job it paid something and the COL wasn't so out of whack. Now if you find a job it's going to be for a lot less than what you were making and the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.  -Rocky |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:57 am)  -Rocky
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 19, 2009 5:46 pm) I also don't buy that income claim, seeing as Norway is a relatively well to do nation and has much less of an income gap than the US. Skilled worker making 9K per year? No. http://www.worldsalaries.org/norway.shtml
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
