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Automotive News & Views United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)
2755 messages, Last post on May 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
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Replying to: lemko (May 09, 2008 5:51 am)  -The Rock P.S. Bob, that is still shocking to me that you would buy anything "union made" since you dislike people like myself !!! 
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Replying to: rockylee (May 10, 2008 7:00 am) If AA came in and offered $12 per hour to those who are currently making $28 per hour and said we are going to implement this the day the contract expires. Then you have a good case. If this was an opening offer and the UAW dug in their heels at the current $28 per hour, I have little sympathy. There is nothing in our laws that say you should always get a pay raise at contract time. If the UAW is willing to push the last bit of union manufacturing off shore, I guess that is the way it is. The Japanese, Koreans and Germans have come to realize they can get cars built here in the USA and be competitive with the labor market in their own countries. |
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$12 an hour is fine if you're a 19 year-old guy sharing a ratty apartment with two other guys and your only real expenses are a case of Old Milwaukee and pizza. However, if you're an older established guy with a wife and a few kids and your oldest is about to go away to college, a 58% pay cut is really going to hurt. What's a guy to do? Is he supposed to forgo having a family in anticipation that it'll no longer be cost-effective to do so? Is a man supposed to save every dime and die of a heart attack working three low-paying jobs just to get by? I'm living to THRIVE not just survive! Shoot if all I'm doing is living to work to make some other guy rich beyond the dreams of avarice, I might as well get the .45 out of the nightstand drawer and say adios! Is a man supposed to spend all his disposable income and free time going back to school to earn a degree that may or may not get him that magical position that'll allow him to spend time with his family while all along his wife's been having an affair due to his absence and junior has joined the Latin Kings or MS-13 due to the lack of a male role model in the house?
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 08, 2008 7:20 pm) As far as not being required to join a union, Here in RI (as Union friendly a state as you can get) there is NO requirement that I belong to the union. But, as acrimonious as union/management relationships can be in a union shop, you are at risk of becoming a scapegoat, as if management were to discipline you, and you felt they were just picking on you, there would be nobody to back you up. Also, and I imagine the same could be said in a Southern union shop, you risk being ostracized by your co-workers, as you will receive the same contract benefits that the union workers get, only you pay no dues (although I believe if I were to tell my local to screw, the equivalent of my weekly dues will still be deducted from my pay and given to charity, so as to discourage people from getting that extra $10-12 bucks a week in their paycheck and riding the coattails of the contract). And YES I do believe this forces some people to say well, just give it to the union so I get protection, and they reluctantly go with the flow.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (May 10, 2008 9:09 am) I learned at about 20 years old the advantage to being part of the Union. I was not a member of the CWA at Pacific Telephone. It was very low key and I don't think I was ever really asked to join. I got in situation where the boss wanted to get rid of me and the CWA guys jumped to my defense. Needless to say I have been a paying member ever since. The CWA was really not a real strong Union. In my 46 years in the Telephone business my only strike was with the CWA. 37 years a Teamster and we never walked out. That to me is good Union management. Which overall the Alaska Teamsters had. |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (May 10, 2008 9:09 am)
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Replying to: fezo (May 10, 2008 9:23 am) |
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Replying to: lemko (May 10, 2008 8:50 am) Actually it is quite fine for a high school education just getting started in life. Much better than $7 or $8 for most jobs requiring a high school education. That is a time in life when they should be making decisions about their future. Get that education that will allow them to earn the good life. OR....Earn or learn a valuable skill. Every person flipping burgers, selling shoes, and picking cabbage would like to earn $28+ per hour with full bennefits. So what makes the guy hanging bumpers so special? Earning as much or more as the Nurse with 4 years of college and dealing with human lives daily. Or the cop, fire fighter, teacher, blah, blah, blah...! Of course, that has been happening at UAW shops for many moons. Management allowed it to happen instead of nipping it in the bud. Now the time for a reality check has come. Don't expect to walk out the door of high school and start a job allowing you to "THRIVE" in the good life. >"What's a guy to do? Is he supposed to forgo having a family in anticipation that it'll no longer be cost-effective to do so?" Yes, we should not take on any more responsibility than we can afford. If he is a $12 dollar an hour guy, he should expect to lead a $12 life. >"Is a man supposed to spend all his disposable income and free time going back to school to earn a degree that may or may not get him that magical position that'll allow him to spend time with his family while all along his wife's been having an affair due to his absence and junior has joined the Latin Kings or MS-13 due to the lack of a male role model in the house? " Might be time for the MAN to face his responsibilities. Do whatever it takes to support that responsibility. The career he chose, the wife he chose, and the kids he had are HIS responsibility. >"However, if you're an older established guy with a wife and a few kids and your oldest is about to go away to college, a 58% pay cut is really going to hurt." Agreed And it is ridiculous for management to do that to the established employees that have been earning or promised that higher wage. Management agreed to it and they should stick to their obligation. However, NEW HIRES should/could expect the same pay/bennefits as the same type job in any other industry. What is so wrong with that? The original role of unions was to ensure fair treatment of the employees, decent working conditions and overtime pay for overtime hours. The UAW has pushed that envelope entirely too far and the Big 3 and their subsidiaries have allowed it to happen. UAW appears to be going to continue pushing the issue until that $28 dollar job becomes a $7 job in Mexico. And people will be rushing back there and standing in line for them. Kip |
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that only proves you have no comprehension of me... ..."Bob, that is still shocking to me that you would buy anything "union made" since you dislike people like myself"... I don't dislike YOU, I think unions are dead or dying on the vine, because their members have no understanding of business, simply because the UAW cannot just get higher wages for unskilled work, expecting the price of an Impala to reach $40K and expect their CUSTOMERS, their real bosses, to buy the product...if the buyers won't buy at the listed price, and you can't decrease the price of your supplies and materials, then labor costs get cut, simply because there ARE people who would LOVE to work for $15 an hour, because their lack of skills has them flipping burgers for $8 an hour...it is the MARKET that will kill the UAW, along with its own greed and ignorance... You also forget that as much as I admire Honda and Toy for quality products, and they were the best cars I ever owned, since 1998 I have owned a Regal, Intrepid, Sable, and now a Crown Vic and a Ram 1500, all bought new except the Sable...My purchases have probably actually SUPPORTED the UAW with my money than your silly union rah-rah sticking your head into the sand... I really do WANT the American manufacturing base to thrive, but my comments for YEARS have been that with the level of automobile quality constantly decreasing due to union ignorance, militancy, subtle sabotage and the intentional making of trash products , it is no wonder that factories are moving away, as the only way to stop the union was to bite off its head and take the jobs away, as the union only desires to raise its pay, BUT HAS NO REGARD WHATSOVER ABOUT THE PRODUCT THEY MAKE...THEY MADE JUNK FOR 30 YEARS AND HAVE THE GALL TO GET OFFENDED WHEN SMART CONSUMERS TAKE THEIR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE...that is why the union should be destroyed...once silly union work rules have been removed from our thinking processes, and rotten employees can be fored at will, then, and only then, will superior quality return to American cars... So, while the best cars I ever owned were 4 Hondas between 1985 and 1998, I have owned Big 3 union cars since then, over a decade by now...I may scream and yell about the union, and I am confident about its demise in the near future, but I still support the American factory base, doing what I can... Most folks who jump down my throat for criticizing unions (usually those who have NO comprehension about business, just those who are brainwashed by the entitlement mentality, thinking that paychecks just come in the mail) have not taken THEIR hard earned money and bought 4 new union-made cars in the last 10 years, between $90-100,000.00 total value... That is my story, and I'm stickin' to it..... |
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The formula is simple to me...the more you need to fight for something the faster it slips through your hands. Regards, OW |
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