- #171 of 333
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Hopefully those rivets are bigger than
by obyone
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Sep 22, 2007 (7:28 am)
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the bolts they use......
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- #172 of 333
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Re: Noooo... say it isn't so... [obyone]
by etothexdx
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Sep 22, 2007 (7:37 am)
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Replying to: obyone (Sep 21, 2007 8:45 pm)
Thanks for the clarification. It is not fully boxed.
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- #173 of 333
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Re: Hopefully those rivets are bigger than [obyone]
by drfill
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Sep 22, 2007 (7:47 am)
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Replying to: obyone (Sep 22, 2007 7:28 am)
The bolts are smaller, but they use twice as many bolts as Ford does for their tow assembly.
DrFill
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- #174 of 333
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Re: Hopefully those rivets are bigger than [drfill]
by anythingbuttoy
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Sep 22, 2007 (8:08 am)
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Replying to: drfill (Sep 22, 2007 7:47 am)
That's because it mates along the frame rails for about 3 feet on each side. Why? Because the frame rails are so much weaker and the hitch needs more area to mount to prevent the frame rails from bending. C'mon DrFill, you already made a fool of yourself defending the guage issue, are you sure you want to make a bigger fool of yourself defending the TripleTech frame design?
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- #175 of 333
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ABT
by drfill
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Sep 22, 2007 (9:49 am)
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After the last 3 days, I could never keep up with you. 
DrFill
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- #176 of 333
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Editing
by kcram HOST
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Sep 22, 2007 (12:52 pm)
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You've probably noticed I have renamed this discussion from Tundra vs Ram since comparisons have been spreading to all the half-tons. So all 6 full-size brands are now represented and fair game. I'll be mergin some other discussions in here as well, so don't panic if posts seem a little out of whack.
kcram - Pickups Host
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- #177 of 333
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Re: As soon as you [anythingbuttoy]
by gotoyota
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Sep 22, 2007 (4:13 pm)
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Replying to: anythingbuttoy (Sep 21, 2007 7:25 am)
"If CR is not biased, then explain to me why they did the towing comparison between the Silvy and the Tundra the way they did. They equipped the Tundra with the top engine/drivetrain config (5.7, 6 spd, 4.30 rear end) and compared it to a Silvy with the 5.3 liter and a 3.73 rear end. Yeah, that is "Apples to Apples" isn't it? Face it, the ONLY people who do not agree that CR is asian biased is the asian fans.
CR is a joke, they should stick to rating Washers and Dryers and Toasters and leave the Automobiles to people who know something about them. They do NOT just report on what people say, they conduct their own tests and have no clue what they are doing.
The rest of your post just illustrates how "brainwashed" you are about Toyota supremity. Talk about "laughable"!!! Go drink some more of that Kool-Aid."
Hmmm... Mr. buttoy, I guess you are saying that the whole world is wrong and you are the authority? Okay, well before you get too confident here, just remember that Toyota is the most studied and emulated car company in the world. If a fully boxed frame is the most important thing in the world to you, it doesn't matter to me. Go ahead and buy a Silvy and have a great life if that's what makes you happy. My bad experience with GM and Ford, and the experience of others in my family with their American cars, has led me to my disposition and the respect I have for Toyota. I have owned and currently own other brands as well - hardly brainwashed as you would like to think. Of the three cars I currently own, only one is a Toyota, so don't pat yourself so hard on the back. I think there are a lot of good brands out there and obviously don't just buy Toyota's because they are Toyota's, but I do think Toyota deserves its reputation as the benchmark for quality. Enjoy the Cool Aid, and by the way, it's "supremecy," not "supremity." That isn't even a word.
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- #178 of 333
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Re: As soon as you [gotoyota]
by anythingbuttoy
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Sep 22, 2007 (7:02 pm)
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Replying to: gotoyota (Sep 22, 2007 4:13 pm)
OK, if you have had bad experiences with GM and Ford, or whoever, I have no problem with you changing your loyalty. I would do the same. But do not assume just because you had these experiences, that everyone else has too. Personally, I have never had a bad experience with any domestics in my entire lifetime. And I have been driving for 26 years. My loyalty is not blind or inherited or anything of the sort. It is solely based on my personal experience, which has been nearly perfect. What urks me more than anything is when someone has a bad experience with a car(s) and right away assumes the entire corporation makes junk. I will also admit that Toyota has helped force the domestics to improve their quality due to competitiveness, especially in the late 70's through the early 90's. Mostly in the car market though, because they really have never offered a full sized truck until now and the domestics have always made great trucks (can't say the same about the cars though). But today I think a person has an equal chance of getting a good car and/or a lemon as I believe the quality has pretty much leveled off. Basically, you can get a cherry or a lemon no matter what brand you buy and your chances of getting a lemon are not any less buying a Toyota. Automotive technology has leveled off in today's mfg industry, plain and simple. They all use the same methodologies and technologies and engineers bounce around from corp to corp. I am NOT saying that all companies make the same overall quality vehicles however, some cut corners where they should not on such things as build quality. That is where I think the Tundra lacks, Toyota placed their focus on the engine/tranny and safety features, but cut corners just about everywhere else because they knew most people buying half-tons put HP and 0-60 times at the forefront and will overlook such things as fully boxed frames and quality fit-n-finish. The interior in the Tundra is a joke IMO, as is the overall build quality. Just look at the panel gaps for an example of shoddy fit-n-finish as compared to the GMT900's. But I understand that Toyota had to cut some corners since this is a brand new undertaking, in a brand new plant, with brand new everything, including people. As it is, they are already higher priced than the competition and have less features and lack alot of technology the domestics are incorporating i.e Hydroformed fully boxed frames.
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- #179 of 333
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Re: As soon as you [anythingbuttoy]
by gotoyota
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Sep 22, 2007 (8:47 pm)
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Replying to: anythingbuttoy (Sep 22, 2007 7:02 pm)
It's good to hear sound reasoning prevailing again. I agree that the new GMT900's are put together nicely... as for the Tundra, I only casually looked at one a while back when I was buying the wife's new Sienna Limited, and didn't notice anything shoddy about the way it was put together, just the hard plastic where the Silvy has soft stuff. I prefer the soft, it feels more upscale. But as I said, I am gun shy, after nothing but bad with my previous GM's.... It just seems like flushing my hard earned money down the drain, and it will take a little while for GM to prove itself to me. Just for the record, I have never owned one of the domestic trucks... although I have spent a fair amount of time driving them, having previously worked for a company whose business was building high performance electronics for Duramax, Cummins and Powerstroke. I have said before, I loved every minute behind the wheel in those trucks, their power potential is almost limitless... but there again is the difference between myself and someone who buys a truck for work - for me, the utility is important, but probably second to the fun-to-drive quotient. I'd rather just drive a car, but find that I need a truck often enough that I am considering buying one. I wanted to buy a Duramax at one point because I really love the engine, but every one of them that we had had something falling apart on it. I don't want another bad car. In just the last year, I've known three different poeple who's late model GM trucks have blown trannys. So when I hear about that and think of my own bad luck with them, yeah, I get a pretty bad allergic reaction to the thought of spending any more money on one. The real clincher is my wifes grandfather spent his entire working career at GM. That's all they have ever owned. Needless to say, we avoid car discussions at family parties. I think you make some good points, and I would at least test drive a Silvy before buying anything, just for comparison, but I have to say, this is the first time in my 19 years of driving that I have ever heard a GM guy criticize the fit/finish of ANY other car make. That says something about how far GM has come along, I suppose, but I find it hard to believe the Tundra's fit and finish is bad. The hard plastic may not be as rich as is should be, but in my recollection, nothing fit poorly on the one I looked at. If it really does have issues with fit/finish, then I would hope and expect that it's a bug associated with ramping up on a new model.
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- #180 of 333
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People here make way too much of the interiors of pick-up trucks
by drfill
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Sep 23, 2007 (7:22 am)
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The '06 Silverado had the worst interior ever put into a vehicle, unless you count the '98 C/Ks.
The new Silvys interiors are posh compared to the Tundra, but, surprise, surprise, nobody cares, as sales fall for the new Silvy, while they soar for the more utilitarian Tundra.
The last Tundra was very quiet and car-like, and no stampedes were seen at Toyota lots. Nobody cares.
381HP, with 0% available, might be good for people. You can do a lot worse. 
DrFill
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