Last post on Jan 05, 2012 at 6:15 PM
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Honda Civic, Acura, Coupe, Sedan
#1 of 7 Honda Civic Si vs. Acura CSX Type S (my review)
Apr 13, 2007 (12:18 pm)
Well after over a year of Si ownership, I finally got around to driving the CSX Type S - one with gorgeous taffeta white paint (though less lustrous than the TSX's metallic white).
Driving this thing instantly reminded me of what my stock Si had driven like - which is stunningly different than how mine drives today. I pushed in the slightly softer clutch pedal, and started the CSX. Looks basically the same inside except for the optioned navigation system, and heated leather seats. I found I was sitting noticeably higher up, and that the seats had less lateral support. The CSX does have a more usable back seat, but the trunk appeared to be the same size as the Si. I turned on the lights to find an effective high intensity discharge. The stock fog lights also seem to work. Back to the drive... I gave 'er a little tap on the same floor mounted, aluminum gas pedal, to find the revs shoot up, only to hold for a second before falling in again. Yes, this car would suffer the same annoying drive by wire throttle programming that holds revs when you take your foot off the gas for a second to improve emissions. Fortunately, shifting this 6-speed seemed to be smoother.
On my Si, I had put on an Injen short ram intake and a DC sports exhaust. I could not notice any difference in sound levels at low to mid RPMs. But this leads on to the most significant factor between my Si and the CSX - the VTEC experience. On the rare occasions where it can be done safely and legally, revving up to the 8000+ redline in my car is an absolute hoot! The performance intake system hugely amplifies the 5800 RPM cam change over - and it's great. Now step back into the stock CSX; the cam change-over experience is dulled and you REALLY have to listen to hear it. Both cars are probably equally quick, but my Si just feels so much quicker up at those RPMs.
Now onto handling. Having poured a few thousand dollars into my suspension set up, my car just feels like it handles better - but it's only at the track where I think the differences would show. The CSX's suspension, like the stock Si, is competent but not smooth. I was actually considering removing my performance coil-overs and returning to the stock ones to improve ride, but the small bumps come through the same. Big bumps are a different story as CSX can simply speed through. One thing I did notice while holding onto the same great small, leather wrapped, multi-function steering wheel, is that the CSX's feels lighter and thus slightly less direct; yet, both cars feel light and nimble - and the CSX exhibited none of the sloppy handling I had in a 2007 Civic LX sedan loaner.
Braking felt the same, as it should. The one piece of jealousy I have over the CSX is its VSA (stability control). Previously, I had thought that I really did not need this piece of technology driving a FWD car; when under steering, just pull off the throttle. But while exploring my car's handling limits at a dry track, I swapped ends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllnGPjWzBU This is poor driving, but fortunately it reinforced the importance of driving smoothly (or better!). VSA should never have to intervene with truly good drivers; nevertheless, VSA will help many stay out of trouble on real roads - more so during low traction winter driving conditions (rare here in Victoria).
Now many will say the CSX's inflated MSRP reduces its glimmer, and I'd agree; but I simply wanted to share a comparison to its fraternal twin. The end result? Smiles all around.
Apr 16, 2007 (8:19 am)
as far as the interior specs go...the csx should be identical to the si sedan. If you have the coupe, of course the backseat is more usable! Its a four door and has about 3 1/2 more inches of leg room!
Good article, but it makes me wonder about one thing...
..is ther ANY civic si owners who understand anything about i-vtec? Apparently not.
There is NO cam switchover. You should not be able to hear it. What you intake is amplifing is the engine noise in general, not the ability to here the v-tec valves! This is a characterstic inherent of older b series engines, and even then, its a change that you FEEL and not neccesarily HEAR.
There is a more aggresive cam, but it doesn't 'kick in' at 5800 rpms, thats the point of i-vtec, kicking in when you do.
#3 of 7 Re: Well... [eldaino]
Apr 16, 2007 (8:27 am)
Have you read tech specs on how i-VTEC works? It seems peculiar to me that you are one against many that preach an alternate operation for the engines.
Apr 16, 2007 (1:36 pm)
i have. Many a time. In fact, you can view them on wikipedia or go to temple of vtec.com and find out there. Many who 'preach' this are realatively new forum memembers or ones who join and only stay a little while.
#5 of 7 Re: yes [eldaino]
Apr 16, 2007 (2:17 pm)
Taking a page straight out of ToV:
"Below 2500rpm and with gentle accelerator pressure, neither pin gets actuated. The engine operates in 12V mode with very good fuel combustion efficiency. When the right foot gets more urgent and/or above 2500rpm, the upper pin gets actuated. This is the VTEC-E mechanism at work and the engine effectively enters into the '2nd stage'. Now D15B 3-stage works in 16V mode (both intake valves works from the same mild cam-lobe).
Stage 2 operates from around 2500rpm to 6000rpm. When the rpm exceeds 6000rpm, the VTEC mechanism activates the wild cam-lobe pushing the engine into the '3rd stage', the power stage. Now the engine gives us the full benefit of its 130ps potential !"
I'd bring up things like the Reynold's number and turbulence effects, but that wouldn't serve to do much here.
#6 of 7 Re: yes [vviley]
Apr 18, 2007 (5:38 am)
i know how the i-vtec works on the newer k series engines; in fact this entire post suppports what i've always said; the upper pin goes into over time in as little as 2500 rpm, even if a MORE aggressive lobe is used after 6000 rpms, that still makes it a different beast than the old b series engines that did this strictly after 5000 rpms or so, regardless if you are flooring it or not.
And if i recall, you stated a noticable 'cam changeover' at 5800 rpms? Your own temple of vtec pulled info goes against that as well.
Header and an intake make a car louder, but probably only add about 12-18 hp and that is just engine producing, not hp thats getting to the wheels; you probably added about 6 or 7. Dyno your car, you'd be suprised.
#7 of 7 Re: yes [eldaino]
Jan 05, 2012 (6:15 pm)
I have a 08 Mugen civic Si sedan and all I have done is AEM full cold air intake and all the Mugen features that came with the car (suspension, lip kit, rims 18'' , Mugen shift knob, Mugen shirt throw shifter and an authentic Mugen center counsel with Mugen badge, Mugen cat-back exhaust.) and idk what to do with it, whether to super charge it or turbo it, my last car i had an LS V-tec turbo integra fully built 308whp and idk what to do any ideas???