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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
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Replying to: maryh3 (Nov 29, 2007 2:34 pm) And I'm not talking about 2008, but over the past several years, where many different reviews, surveys, etc., all put the Odyssey & Sienna at the top of the list. Was everyone biased or worried about losing their jobs and if so...why? And it's the history of the Odyssey & Sienna as being the best that the T&C has to overcome. The same with the quality history. It takes more than a couple of good years for Chrysler and more than a couple of bad ones for Honda & Toyota to make a difference. And you have to look at the whole line offered by a company. The Civic, Accord, Fit, Pilot are all high quality vehicles. The Sebring, Cruiser, Pacifica? |
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I suppose, if you had evidence, you could convince me that a single reviewer might be biased. But are we really supposed to believe that EVERY professional reviewer is biased? Why? That makes no sense? What is their motive? In the case of some of the big name car mags, the individual who writes the review is quite public---you know their names, even sometimes their pictures. You can track down and read everything they write. Over time, I've read dozens of reviews from certain professional reviewers. Its just not credible to me to suggest these guys are biased with no evidence proving your case. Especially not ALL of them. Professional reviewers drive thousands of miles in a variety of vehicles. They have a better sense of how vehicles compare to each other because they drive far more of them than the average owner does. They generally put substantial miles on each vehicle they test so its not like they're only driving it once or twice. They spend days with these cars on tracks and learn how they react in certain situations. Am I saying you should take what a professional says as gospel and ignore your own instincts? Of course not. What I'm saying is that over time, certain trends and characteristics become obvious, and in the case of minivans, the Odyssey, and to a lesser extent, the Sienna have emerged time after time as winners. That does mean something.
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Nov 29, 2007 6:09 pm) I am now stuck with a 2006 Sienna LE that I do NOT like as well as my former, less expensive T&C LX because the Trade-in value of the Sienna has not been good. DON'T believe the reviews of the "professional" reviewers. I had considered trading it on an Odyssey but since the "professional" reviewers have been so wrong with their praise of the Sienna, I am afraid the Odyssey will not be any better than the Sienna. 
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Replying to: hansienna (Nov 29, 2007 6:44 pm)  The trade in value of the Sienna is better than anything but the Ody in this class. Check out what you're looking at with the Sedona or even the DGC... Frankly, the professional reviews of the Sienna I've read haven't been all that positive, especially in turns of driving dynamics. I read everything I could get my hands on. To top it off, you've got the old engine in your Sienna, I believe...not the 3.5 which is the most-praised part of the Sienna. And you've got an LE, which lacked auto climate and a bunch of other features. I probably wouldn't love it either.
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Nov 29, 2007 7:49 pm) |
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Nov 29, 2007 7:49 pm) I'm not sure exactly what package he got, but he paid $29k for an LE in Colorado. Today that money buys you an XLE with a few options. He complained when his dealer low-balled him on a wholesale trade-in value, yet he could try to sell it on his own and get more money for it. Of course a dealer will low-ball you, they have to make a profit on used cars! So really, his was a case of bad timing. He bought it when prices were high, and compares that to resale when rebates exist on the new ones, and of course he's looking only at the low-ball wholesale offer. This is not representative at all, however. When I shopped, a new Sienna LE pkg 2 was $24.7k and a 2 year old used one with 30k miles was $21k. Same dealer, apples to apples, retail price comparison. As is obvious, residual values are very strong when you compare today's new prices with today's used prices. Automotive Lease Guide gives the Sienna 4 stars for residual values: https://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx Sienna and Ody tie for the best among minivans. Note that the Dodge scored poorly BUT that score is likely to improve with the new models. If we look at the Ody, back in May, a new 2007 Ody EX was $26.8k. Today the same van sells for $23k new. If you bought the van in May, your residuals just got slammed, too. A 6 month old EX has to cost less than new one does now, so you can expect your residual to drop. Why? Bad timing. Plain and simple. If you get a bargain on a 2007 now, your actual residual will be very strong. Much better than it would have been if you had bought the same van back in May. Timing is everything. Now, let's say you're shopping for a new T&C. Right when the new ones come out. You want to be the first on the block, so you pay MSRP for the very first one. Then compare that to the patient person who waits for the incentives to show up, and that person gets the same van for, say, $3000 less. Again, it's all about the timing. If you're shopping for a van, follow the pricing market, track the trends. Back in May, I got a $1250 rebate on the Sienna. That was the best bargain at the time. Ody had no incentives. I timed it right and got the Sienna. Right now, IMO the Ody is the best bargain. Dealers have a $2000 incentive. You can get a better deal on an 07 Ody, because the 07 Siennas are mostly gone. So if you are timing the market, get a bargain on the Ody today. I would not buy an 08 Sienna right now because the rebates are small and will likely grow. Bad timing. For the Dodge and Chrysler, again, it's a new model and rebates right now are small. I bet that a year from now, people will be paying less than you would pay today.
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To show you guys what I'm talking about, here is my price tracking for the 2007 Sienna, which I did for about 5 months. These were the no-haggle prices on the very same model 2007 Sienna LE package 3: January, right at the launch: $26,698 (no rebate, BAD timing, be patient!) Feb. 12, $500 rebate appears, prices drops to $26,337. Feb. 23, price drops again, to $26,137 March 6, price increases to $26,689 (I'm depressed, thinking I missed my chance) April 5, $25,439, must be a bigger rebate, yes! (I decide to check more often) April 20, same price April 30, same price May 2, no change May 10, no change May 14, no change I bought my van on May 22 for $25,247. Note my price tracking strategy ended up saving me almost $1500 with simple patience and good timing. If you did the same price tracking with the 2007 Odyssey, you would have seen that prices didn't drop until later, because Honda introduced the 2008s later in the year. That means the timing is NOW if you are shopping for a 2007. I'll say it again, timing is everything.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 30, 2007 9:10 am) Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda.......... Now is not the time to buy a Chrysler, first model year of a new design, no incentives etc... I have the itch bad, but i'm holding off for 6 months to a year. Toyota is due for redesign for 2010 (i was working on module for it recently), Honda? |
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Replying to: dennisctc (Nov 30, 2007 9:19 am) The 2008 Odyssey is a refresh, new VCM for the engine, minor face-lift. That's probably why the 2007s are a bargain. However...the changes are really pretty minor. Good timing, IMHO. The incentives on the Sienna are only about half what they were in May. I predict they will increase, so my advice for Toyota shoppers is to wait. The redesign should come out for 2009, so towards the end of the 2008 run they will be bargains again. For Dodge, if it were me, I would wait. I agree with you. Side note: before I was ready to buy, I found a leftover 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT for a whopping $20,600 price. This is without any special employee discount, just a left over they were anxious to unload. I was very, very tempted. I didn't like it as much, and that particular one didn't have side curtain air bags, but still, that's a bargain! I'll admit, it was tempting. By the time I was ready to buy, the same van was about $22k and change. Still no SAC for that price. Plus, the deal just wasn't as sweet.
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