Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Dodge Caravan, Hyundai Entourage, Mazda MAZDA5, Kia Sedona, Car Comparisons, Car Buying, Van
#677 of 1261 Re: 3.3L in T&C is MUCH better than "just adequate" [mfletou1]
Nov 17, 2007 (9:09 am)
It may be irrelevant, but still applicable. Our Grand Caravan ES also had the 3.3L, and it was a nice quiet, smooth, and reliable engine. I never felt it was underpowered in any sense, as I could easily keep up with anyone on entrance ramps, or on any freeway. Its two-lane passing capability was also adequate. Many times we loaded all the kids in the van and all the luggage for trips through the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee. No problems there either, and during these trips it easily managed 26 to 27MPG fully loaded with the A/C on during summer vacations.
The 3.8L has more torque, for sure, but the 3.3L is adequate for most drivers. I guess I really don't understand how some of you may drive. If you drive conservatively, as all those hauling families around should, the 3.3L is fine.
And, finally, I'll be willing to wager the cost of maintenance on either the 3.3L or 3.8L pushrod engine will be less than the Honda V6 over a span of 150K. Between my brothers and sister, we've owned 6 minivans over the past decade, 3 Dodges and 3 Hondas. At 150K, the Dodges were still running fine, but in each case, the Honda Odys required routine, and somewhat costly, timing belt replacements, one a crankshaft problem, and another engine electrical gremlins. Two of the Honda Odys required transmission replacements prior to 60K and 100K respectively. Contrary to common perception, none of the three Caravan's required transmission work prior to 150K.
Heck, when I sold our 1994 Grand Caravan last year, it was on its original stainless-steel exhaust system and muffler. Not too bad in my opinion!
#678 of 1261 Re: comparison reviews [bobw3]
Nov 17, 2007 (9:34 am)
I don't bash CR testing methods or their actual test numbers....
It is CR's FLAGRANTLY BIASED written portion that is disgusting.
CR sells quite expensive buying techniques to inform people how to save money when purchasing a new vehicle...BUT CR compares vehicles based on MSRP instead of the actual prices people should pay. Can't CR follow their own guidelines on how to save money when purchasing a new vehicle?
#679 of 1261 Re: 3.3L in T&C is MUCH better than "just adequate" [artgpo]
Nov 17, 2007 (11:20 am)
Yeah, the Sienna is quicker than the Ody with the new Sienna engine. Its a great powertrain.
Considering the fact that the 3.8 runs a 10.2 second 60 time, the 3.3 is probably close to 11 seconds to 60, which makes its one of the slowest vehicles for sale in the United States.
As for reliablitiy...believe whatever you want. An anectodotal story here and there tells me nothing. For every "my Grand Caravan ran for 150,000 miles" there's a story like my dad's--he had a 1997 Grand Caravan that with about 95k miles (literally) caught on fire. He started it up one day and boom. It was an electrical problem. Melted the dashboard and the fire department came and put the fire out.
(Yes, he still bought another one...)
#680 of 1261 Re: Reliability [mfletou1]
Nov 17, 2007 (2:37 pm)
My daughter's 1999 GC SE now has 104,110 miles with only a couple of minor problems. It still has original exhaust pipe, catalytic converter, muffler, etc.
My sister's 1986 Caravan SE had 170,000 miles with no problems...and the list of reliable Chrysler minivans goes on and on and on....
The new 3.5L Sienna engine might be terrific but there is much more to a minivan than a powerful engine, a very comfortable driver's seat, and the most cargo space of any minivan.
I will NOT buy another Sienna.
#681 of 1261 Re: 3.3L in T&C is MUCH better than "just adequate" [mfletou1]
Nov 17, 2007 (3:08 pm)
Not too many years ago, a 10 to 11 second 0-60 time was considered quite reasonable, even for a 4-door sedan. I don't buy a minivan for 0-60 times, nor do I even place HP as a primary specification when considering any vehicle. Now, if I was buying a Vette or a Ferrarri, I would be more statistically oriented - but, not with a family hauler like a minivan. Arguing 0-60 times for minivans is ludicrous . . .
I don't know if our family experience is anecdotal or not, no more so, or less so, than your dad's '97 Caravan. There are more Chrysler minivans on the road than any other brand; because of this, you may certainly hear more horror stories. In all cases, whether it's a Chrysler, Honda, or Toyota, preventive maintenance is critical, and there are many cases of vehicles running around this country poorly maintained which ultimately leads to poor reliability.
#682 of 1261 Re: comparison reviews [hansienna]
Nov 17, 2007 (6:10 pm)
is CR's FLAGRANTLY BIASED written portion that is disgusting
Why do you say that? Plus, CR seems to match other reviews in magazines and other online reviewers...unless you think they're all biased?
#683 of 1261 Re: Which Vans looks expensive and which vans looks cheap? [hansienna]
Nov 17, 2007 (8:01 pm)
Dased on exterior and interior styling
1. Town & Country
2. Honda Odyssey
3. Dodge Caravan
4. Toyota Sienna
5. ALL The Rest
#684 of 1261 Re: T&C acceleration video 4.0 L [ateixeira]
Nov 17, 2007 (8:07 pm)
I was surprised, but CR says Subaru just passed Toyota in reliability, so maybe I shouldn't be.
What?! Really? Well I guess Toyota owns some of Subaru now.
#685 of 1261 Re: flagrantly biased written portion...[bobw3]
Nov 17, 2007 (8:20 pm)
October 2007 CR has excellent example of CR bias.
The October 2007 CR Cover has headlines "MAKE YOUR CAR LAST 200,000 MILES" and has a photo of a Honda Civic on the cover (suggesting that Honda's are the cars that last).
On page 20, the 1994 Ford Ranger pickup is the vehicle that has 488,000 miles while the beloved 1995 Honda Civic on page 21 has only 227,000 miles (NOT even HALF the miles of the 1994 Ford Ranger).
On page 19 with NEW for 2008 there is a photo of the Honda Accord that is 4 times as large as the new Chrysler minivan (giving emphasis to their beloved Honda once more).
CR did not even get the Horsepower ratings of the 3 Chrysler engines correct where they state the 3 V6 engines offer 170 to 240 Horsepower when the correct numbers are 175 to 251. ( Is CR afraid to print the Chrysler 4.0L has MORE power than the 244 HP of the 08 Ody LX and EX or the 241 HP of the 08 Ody EX-L and Touring?)
The Chrysler 4.0L torque of 259 lb-ft 4,200 RPM is an even greater advantage over the 240 lb-ft 5,000 RPM of 08 Ody LX and EX or 242 lb-ft 4900 RPM of the 08 Ody EX-L and Touring while the Chrysler minivans have a 6 speed AT vs 5 speed Ody AT.
CR also writes that the new vans get rear coil springs instead of the trucklike leaf springs implying that the earlier Chrysler minivans are inferior to their beloved Odyssey and then go on to write that the new springs should improve ride comfort although an independent rear suspension would have been better.
The Grand Caravan and Town & Country have always been quieter with a smoother ride than the same year Odyssey. The Odyssey by contrast has superior handling for aggressive driving.