2008 Minivans - READ ONLY

Replying to: mfletou1 (May 07, 2007 9:11 am)

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• thegraduate (Nov 15, 2007 8:53 am)
  • dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 9:35 am)
    • thegraduate (Nov 15, 2007 9:40 am) and 6 more...
    • bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 6:15 pm) and 2 more...

Replying to: mfletou1 (Nov 15, 2007 7:28 am)

Replying to: dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 8:38 am)

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• dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 9:35 am)
  • thegraduate (Nov 15, 2007 9:40 am)
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  • bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 6:15 pm)
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Replying to: dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 8:00 am)

You don't even know what their sample size is, it could be 50 people responding to their surveys.
 
If you want to learn more about CRs survey methods, my two-second google search came up with this:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/maintenance-accessories/consumer-reports- - -car-reliability-faq-8-06/overview/0608_consumer-reports-carreliability-faq_ov.h- - tm
 
Actually, I think the stowNgo and swivel are great options for those who want/need them. I'd rather have the better interior space, better ride (not floating like a 1970s boat), safer handling (better at avoiding accidents), better quality interior, and from a company with a long history of high quality vehicles. It's great to have high sale volumes (good for McDonalds burgers too).
 
FYI...From the manufacturer's websites (about 7" more legroom in the combined 2nd & 3rd row):
Odyssey Legroom (in., front/middle/rear) 40.8 / 40.0 / 41.1
Caravan Legroom (in, front/middle/rear) 40.6 / 36.4 / 37.6
 
by the way...I'm still waiting for someone to find some comparison test that puts the caravan on the top...but I guess ALL reviewers are biased

Replies to this message:
• dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 9:17 am)
  • artgpo (Nov 15, 2007 5:36 pm)
    • dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 7:03 pm)
  • bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 6:13 pm)
    • dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 6:41 pm) and 2 more...

First some observations.
 
No fair to mention all the C&D parts that favor the Ody and not the ones that don't. You clearly drank the Kool Aid and presented the case as Honda would.
 
It was slower 0-60 and used a lot more fuel than both the Dodge and the Toyota.
 
C&D staff probably don't pay for their own gas, but we do. I think it's fair to say that if we got a miserable 16mpg we'd try to use a little less throttle on the Ody. Perhaps they just pushed it harder to prove a point - they want to be seen as enthusiasts and prioritize handling and steering feel.
 
OK, fine, but the 3mpg deficit compard to the much quicker Sienna would cost me $2960.53 in extra gas over my expected 100k mile ownership, assuming a best-case scenario that gas drops to $3 a gallon and stays there for the next 10 years (doubtful).
 
I'll happily bet that $3000 that if C&D staffers actually bought the van they would not drive it that way.
 
Plus you say the Ody is quieter at idle and at full throttle, but let's fact it, how often are you in that state? A few seconds? You cruise at highway speeds for hours, hours, and hours. What matters is the highway noise level, and there the Dodge is more quiet (and the Toyota).
 
Yes, Honda won that comparo, but mostly on subjective measures (gotta have it, fun to drive) when enthusiast driving was the primary criteria, and gas mileage is completely ignored.
 
Any how, to be fair paint the whole picture, the Dodge was quicker, more efficient, and more quiet at cruise. OK, so I drank some of Dodge's Kool Aid.
 
Consumer Reports rates the Sienna higher than the Ody, let's see how they rate the new Dodge. I think it's fair to say they better represent family needs, as opposed to enthusiast drivers' needs like C&D does.
 
A few more comments: the 3.8l in the Dodge is fine but if the 4.0l gets the same gas mileage I don't see why they don't just phase it out. Maybe there are UAW contracts to continue building those engines in certain plants, but sadly this handicaps Chrysler.
 
Another: someone priced a Sienna at $40.5k, sure, but that's with AWD and laser cruise control. Try easing up on the options list, buddy!
 
One peek at Fitzmall.com, where they have 80 Siennas in stock, and the most expensive one tops off at $37.5k.
 
There is no $40k Sienna, it's a myth. The worst negotiator in the world cannot pay more than $37.5k, $3 grand below your price.
 
A Sienna XLE with heated leather, DVD, GPS, and a moonroof goes for $33k. That's pretty well loaded up.
 
Spend more and you're really just showing off.
 
There, I'll now step off the soap box.
 
Who is next?

Replies to this message:
• thegraduate (Nov 15, 2007 9:12 am)
• dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 9:43 am)
  • ateixeira (Nov 15, 2007 11:15 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 15, 2007 9:02 am)

Any how, to be fair paint the whole picture, the Dodge was quicker, more efficient, and more quiet at cruise. OK, so I drank some of Dodge's Kool Aid.
 
Haha, Chrysler Corp isn't Jim Jones, so you're ok! The Dodge being newer definitely has its advantages. By the way, I also agree with you that the old 3.8L should just be phased out when the 4.0L is the only engine competitive these days. Sure, the 3.8L gets the job done, but when there is no economy penalty for 50+ hp, why not? It would be a no-excuses van with an excellent powertrain that out-pulls Honda and comes the closest to keeping up with the zippy Toyota.

Replying to: bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 9:00 am)

Replies to this message:
• artgpo (Nov 15, 2007 5:36 pm)
  • dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 7:03 pm)
• bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 6:13 pm)
  • dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 6:41 pm)
    • ateixeira (Nov 15, 2007 7:00 pm)
    • bobw3 (Nov 16, 2007 6:13 am)