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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum. Your Host is Karens
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Replying to: artgpo (Nov 15, 2007 5:41 am) |
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but its pretty hard for me to take anyone seriously who says they don't want a "Japanese feel" in a minivan. It just shows a lack of product knowledge. The two Japanese entries in this segment (unlike the Chrysler minivans, by the way, these two are actually made in the US, but I digress) are the Toyota Sienna and the Honda Odyssey. In terms of "feel," they could not be more different. If you want a "relaxed, Cadillac" feel in a minivan, than the Sienna gives you exactly that. It rides softer than either the Honda or the Dodge/Chrysler. Numerous reviews and my own test drive confirm the cushy, plush sort of ride in the Toyota. When you combine that with a torque 3.5L V6, you get quite the "relaxing" ride. The Honda, on the other hand rides more like a sedan. Its certainly not harsh--we're not talking BMW here--but it does communicate more with the road. The steering is very precise and weighted perfectly. A few relevant impressions from the Edmunds Ody vs. '08 DGC comparison test: At the test track the Honda kicked butt, pulling 0.76g on the skid pad compared to the Dodge's 0.71g and traipsed through the slalom at 60.3 mph compared to the Dodge's 56.2 mph. Neither is going to give a Lotus Elise a run for its money, but if there's such a thing as a "driver's minivan," the Odyssey is it. It also rides better. The Odyssey's ride is composed and recovers nicely from any sort of upheaval. The Grand Caravan isn't bad, but there's more impact harshness over larger pavement cracks, and recovery after a disruption takes longer. In sum, the Dodge doesn't feel as substantial or refined as the Honda — which is only exaggerated by the cheap feel of controls like the steering wheel and transmission shifter. In our 60-mph-to-0 braking test, the results were close, 131 feet for the Honda and 134 feet for the Dodge, but the Honda's firm pedal was preferred over the Caravan's, which alarmingly traveled all the way to the floor on every run. There's no denying the Honda feels better assembled, plus its navigation system proved to be easier to program and its screen is larger. We also give the seat comfort crown to the Honda. Both vans were subjected to family road trips during their stay with us, and the Honda's driver seat was voted to be more comfortable over the long haul. And then there's price. Some careful excision of the Grand Caravan's more lavish options would bring the prices closer together, but the Dodge's $39,305 as-tested sticker is a thick $3,815 more than the Honda's $35,490 bottom line.
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on the issue of noise. Also from Edmunds, '08 DGC vs Ody: DGC: Db  Idle: 44.7 Db Full Throttle: 77.8 Db 70 mph Cruise: 70.2 Ody: Db Idle: 44.8 Db Full Throttle: 72.1 Db 70 mph Cruise: 67.2 In other words---at both full throttle and at cruise, the Ody is significantly quieter than the Grand Caravan. And on turning circle--which is particularly important to my wife, who will be using this van in many parking lots, grocery shopping, etc: Dodge-39.1 Honda-36.7 And did I mention it was cheaper?
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Replying to: dennisctc (Nov 15, 2007 4:04 am) When the host steps in and decides we can only talk about vehicles we currently own, I'll happily leave. Until then, you can get over it. I'm here; if you don't feel my posts are valid, please feel free to SKIP THEM. What is "the Japanese feel?" Would you clue me in please, I can't say I've heard of it. Not so much "feel" but Honda aren't exactly the quietess vehicles on the road. Their noisy high reving engine can be really anoying. So Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, etc... are all the same? My question was directed at someone else. I was looking for their view of the Japanese feel, as relative to their DCX product. Toyotas feel an awful lot different than Hondas do. They are a lot quieter, and a lot softer-riding. I equated them to the last Grand Caravan SXT I drove (which was a prev. gen model). Hondas are more sporty in handling and ride (meaning firmer) while DCX and Toyota are more cushy, although the Dodge made a ruckus when pushed above 3k RPM.
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Replying to: bobw3 (Nov 15, 2007 6:15 am) I don't know where you're getting your numbers at to even want to bother responding. You want to quibbe about behind 3rd space, I could equally quibble about the space in the Stow N Go bins too.....but what's the point? Actually I look at it this way.....When Honda and Toyota owners (though its almost always Honda owners), have nothing better to do than bash Chrysler, Chrysler must be doing something right. If you have to put down Stow N Go or Swizel N Go, or base engines, or subjective things like Steering feel...... how sad is that to begin with, then to try and spin it as "defensiveness" on our part? Sad..... |
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Replying to: artgpo (Nov 15, 2007 5:54 am) You don't even know what their sample size is, it could be 50 people responding to their surveys. There's been a number of people on here, including myself who never bothered completing their 10 page survey. As I have said many times, a person who spends BIG bucks to buy a Chrysler mini to see its value drop 50% in the first year HAS to defend their purchase. LOL, BIG BUCKS??? The same old game, let's just use MSRP to calculate the resale value, never mind that very few Chrysler buyers pay anywhere near that. Many Honda buyer were paying adders. What's the saying figures don't lie but liars figure? We can all play the figures game and throw out numbers, but everyone's individual experience is unique. Tossing out "BIG" and "50%" is meaningless and misleading.
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Nov 15, 2007 7:28 am) LOL -- talk about the personal attacks. That green-eyed monster got ya didn't he. I passed on what you have chosen, and your fragile ego can't handle it. Minivan envy.
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Replying to: maryh3 (Nov 15, 2007 8:11 am) I laid out a very logical reason why your statement about "Japenese feel" is very much off base--namely, because the two Japanese vehicles in this segment have the complete opposite "feel." At the least, can you tell me which one of them you refer to as having "Japanese feel" and what the other one has, then? I also provided quantative numbers backing up my points. Feel free to counter those. And by the way, your point about retail vs. MSRP is a good one. For instance, on the surface, I'm getting killed on my wife's '04 Malibu Maxx, because its only worth about $9k on trade from an MSRP of $23k. However, I actually paid $16.5 on it (i know, its no wonder GM is losing money, but that's a different story), so I'm really not. However...in this instance, it doesn't apply. Go to www.fitzmall.com and price the new Grand Caravan. Then go to the Ody Prices Paid forum and see what Honda's actually cost. You'll find that for vehicles equipped roughly the same way, the Honda is MUCH cheaper. So in this instance, resale value is an even more pronounced advantage for Honda, and to a lesser extent, Toyota, since Sienna's are selling at or below invoice, even for '08's (again, check www.fitzmall.com where you can also price Toyota's). I'm not personally attacking you, and I really don't have any agenda here, but I also don't appreciate sloppy arguments. I'm not attacking your decision to buy a DGC--as I said from the beginning, I can see situations where that vehicles makes the most sense for some people. What bothers me is that you are taking that a step further by asserting things that simply aren't true about both vehicles--and now that I've provided you with data, you have no rebuttal. |
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....if you're happy with the minivan of your choice, what's to argue about? Please keep your comments focused on the vehicle(s). It is entirely possible to disagree with another member without including disparaging personal assessments of their character. Thanks for your cooperation. |
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